Dreaming of relocating to Portugal? With its warm climate, rich culture and affordable living, Portugal is becoming a prime choice for expatriates from the U.S., Canada and elsewhere. Scott Kirk, CEO and founder of Visas.pt, offers a practical guide to help you navigate your move.
In this episode of Moving Along, Christi Cassidy interviews Scott Kirk, CEO and founder of Visas.pt, a company that assists people looking to move to Portugal with visa and immigration services. Scott discusses the exponential growth of their online community, which includes 2.4 million monthly visitors to their Facebook groups, including Moving to Portugal and Living in Portugal.
Contrary to popular belief, Portugal is not becoming overrun with Americans moving to Portugal, and Scott offers words of wisdom for respecting the Portuguese culture and ways to fit in.
The conversation delves into Scott's own adventurous background stemming from his family's travel history, leading to his extensive global travels and eventual settlement in Portugal.
Scott also provides detailed insights into the process and nuances involved in moving to Portugal, addressing various visa types for retirees, digital nomads, entrepreneurs and others, economic considerations, real estate market dynamics and scams to watch out for.
Often called the “Gateway to Europe,” Portugal is a welcoming country and gay-friendly. Still, Scott emphasizes the importance of responsible immigration and cultural integration.
Scott offers practical advice for those considering relocating and details the pathway to dual citizenship, currently a five-year process that may soon become a 10-year process. The discussion highlights not only the challenges and benefits of moving to Portugal but also Scott's personal motivations and experiences that shaped his journey.
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction to Scott Kirk
02:35 Island Boy in Victoria, British Columbia
04:05 Digital Nomad in Remote Brazil
06:28 Why Portugal?
08:47 Founding Visas.pt
11:38 Is Portugal Getting More Expensive?
13:05 Prato do Dia - Plate of the Day
14:49 Beach Life
15:53 Blue Flag Beaches in Portugal
17:48 Gateway to Europe
20:04 Requirements for Retiring to Portugal on a D7 Visa
22:29 Healthcare in Portugal
24:08 Cost of Living in Portugal
24:32 Buying a Place in Portugal
27:09 Schengren Shuffle
27:55 The Golden Visa
28:33 Requirements for the Pathway to Dual Citizenship in Portugal
31:11 Rainbow Connection: Gay-Friendly Portugal
32:20 Taxes in Portugal
32:58 Non-Retirement Visa Options for Portugal
34:12 Starting a Business in Portugal - The D2 Visa
34:41 Visas for Highly Qualified Skilled Individuals and Students
36:04 Digital Nomads in Portugal
37:06 Scams to Beware of in Coming to Portugal
41:32 Mistakes People Make in Emigrating to Portugal
Resources
Living in Portugal Facebook Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/expatsinportugalqa
Moving to Portugal Facebook Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/movingtoportugal2.0
For a free consultation and to contact Scott Kirk: https://visas.pt/contact.php
[00:00:35] Christi: Welcome to Moving Along. This is Christi Cassidy and my guest today is Scott Kirk, CEO and founder of Visas.pt for people who want to move to Portugal. The company provides visa and immigration services. Basically handholding and guidance along with a robust online community of 1.4 million monthly visitors of expats and others living in Portugal or dreaming of living there.
[00:01:07] Scott: Mm-hmm.
[00:01:07] Christi: Scott.
[00:01:08] Scott: Thank you, Christi. I appreciate you having me on.
[00:01:10] Christi: Yeah, is really, you have 1.4 million monthly visitors.
[00:01:14] Scott: wasn't sure if I gave you that stat or where you got that stat from. But that's the stat for one of our groups online. We actually have in, in all of our groups, 2.4 million visitors per month, so substantially more.
[00:01:26] Christi: Wow. 2.4 million visitors per month. And what is the name of that community?
[00:01:33] Scott: There's multiple ones. It's all on Facebook. They call Facebook Groups You may have heard of them. They're called Moving to Portugal.
[00:01:41] Christi: Oh, that's great. Moving to Portugal and Living in Portugal, 2.4 million visitors per month.
[00:01:49] Scott: Yeah. It's because they're a very vibrant community of very helpful people it's a great way to learn about Portugal, either again, living here or moving to here. And we're able to answer everyone's questions. We have a legal team behind a lot of the questions, being able to answer a lot of the visa questions as well, so it's helpful a lot of different ways.
[00:02:05] Christi: Well, that's great, and I'm going to ask you a lot more about
[00:02:09] Scott: Good.
[00:02:10] Christi: moving to Portugal, retiring in Portugal. All the different visas and the steps that one should take if one is interested in moving to your beautiful country. But first I wanted to ask you, Scott, you grew up in Victoria, British Columbia, and I wondered what did travel and moving mean to you as a child?
[00:02:35] Scott: That's a good question. So, my father was actually born in Kenya, in Africa, and you know, his father before him was in the uk. And so what happened was I, I sort of blamed my father because. When he was old enough, he moved to Canada he also worked in the uk sorry, in the Arctic on some boats, et cetera.
[00:02:54] Scott: So he sort of started the travel bug, I guess, in our family. Both my brothers were also now living abroad outside of Canada as well. So it's one of those things where I think we all kind of got this itch and this adventurous spirit from my father. And we kind of grew up, you know, learning about different parts of the world through his adventures and also through my ancestry, through the UK et cetera. it all of intrigued me and piqued my interest to start traveling. And so initially what happened was, again, Victoria, British Columbia is an island, so a rather relatively closed community. You know, the big step for me, first of all was to move to Vancouver, the mainland, another time.
[00:03:30] Scott: That was quite a, an adventure, you know, as as an island boy moving to the mainland, we don't know anybody. it's a big first step. But of course after that we started moving to places like, um San Francisco and Pasadena. then after that we started, I started branching out a little bit more.
[00:03:45] Scott: I went to Edinburgh and then London, then even more so into like Mauritius and, Bahamas and India and, and all around the world. It always started with that first little step where I got outside of my comfort zone. And that's kind of what made me realize that travel was just such an exciting place to, you know, to live your life.
[00:04:05] Scott: I was a digital nomad before there was a term for digital nomad. So I was able to work around the world and understand and relate to different cultures and learn about them while I was working. So the benefit of that is the fact that I could pick and choose where in the world I wanted, and I chose some really extreme places.
[00:04:18] Scott: For example, I went to one of the most remote parts of Brazil in a place called João Pessoa and De Gramame Norte, where there was, I always joke and say, there's more monkeys than people. And you know, it was great. We had monkeys in the backyard, and at the time I was creating educational video games. So it was one of the most creative environments I had. but the internet connection, for example, is via radio packets. So it was one of those things where it was challenging but adventurous. But as I continued to expand and, explore the world it really just kind of felt natural to me to go to new places. And it was less scary than the first time I went from this little island to mainland.
[00:04:52] Scott: And now I can go to d different countries and coincidentally enough, my brothers do the same thing. You know, there are different parts of the world now as well. And so it's something that I think was, I think it's more nature than nurture in this case.
[00:05:03] Christi: Do you have any family left back in Vancouver?
[00:05:06] Scott: I, no, not in Vancouver. My mother lives in a place called the Winnipeg, which I joke and call Winterpeg for obvious reasons. Very cold there. my father's passed.
[00:05:14] Christi: I.
[00:05:14] Scott: My other brother is now in the Caribbean. The other one's in Hong Kong. So it's yeah, we all kind of just spread our wings and, and went around the world.
[00:05:21] Christi: the gaming radio packets, so was this before the internet
[00:05:26] Scott: No, it's, it is rather the very beginning of, you know, when the internet became popular, I guess right the very beginning of the Facebook days. I remember debating if I want to join Facebook or not, and, you know, I it was very early days. I was very relieved, a year or two later when they actually brought in a mobile data connection. So I was able to go from, radio packet to that.
[00:05:46] Scott: because sometimes this data packet center would go down. then I have to go to my motorcycle and drive with my USB drive to João Pessoa City and it was about an hour and a half away. And then upload my files and then travel on back to where I lived in a little small place called Lucena, Paraíba. And so it was just nice to have a more stable connection. I'll tell you what the adventures I had in that little place, and the experiences and memories that come along with it by far exceeded the inconvenience of that. In fact, the motorcycle trips into town regularly were, some of the highlights of my life. You can imagine going on a motorcycle through coconut orchards and you know, all these different some of the most amazing scenery in your life.
[00:06:25] Scott: It was really a very special time in my life.
[00:06:28] Christi: Is that with the Portuguese, is that part of what led you to Portugal? why Portugal?
[00:06:34] Scott: yeah, I mean I, I went and I met my wife in Brazil and I met her and then I went to a place called Mauritius and because I thought I come from an island in Canada. I love island, so I go to see Mauritius. And I missed my wife or my then girlfriend too much. So I went back to Brazil and married her and we had a a little girl. Now,
[00:06:52] Christi: Oh.
[00:06:53] Scott: as a adventurous young man living in, Brazil is, exciting. But by the time I left, it wasn't that way when I first got there. But when I left, it was became very dangerous. Natal was considered the fourth most violent city in the world. And so, I mean, worse than the Congo, for example. As again, as an adventurous man, I knew where to go, where not to go. And even then, people. That I, everyone I knew has been robbed, including myself by gunpoint, et cetera. And
[00:07:17] Christi: Ooh.
[00:07:17] Scott: scary things going on. So I thought, where in the world should we go that is safe and also sunny weather and all these things that are, important to me. And Portugal seemed to check all those boxes. You know, at the time, again, Natal was the fourth. The most dangerous city in the world. And Portugal is the fifth safest country in the world. So it was a big shock when it comes to and you have your guard up because you're always thinking about getting robbed and, it never happens.
[00:07:42] Scott: I'll tell you a quick little story because I think it's, it's kind of, it's telling. I remember a third day in Portugal and we were looking for a little playground for my daughter. And we're looking around and there's, you know, those construction areas that have the big walls up in front of the construction. We're walking right in the middle of two construction sites. So we're in the middle of these two big walls. And I look up on the top of the hill and there's this this kid on A BMX bike with a hoodie, you know, and so ultimate you got a little bit concerned about that, and then the kid starts coming down the the road.
[00:08:12] Scott: He takes a direct line directly towards us and I'm thinking, oh, great. We've been here for three days and we're about to get robbed. in the nicest English, Portuguese accent, he says, excuse me sir, you look lost. Can I help you find something? And I said, yeah, we're looking for the playground. He goes, just down there to the right, you know, have a good day.
[00:08:27] Scott: And, and rode off. And I thought to myself at that moment, you really have to change the way you think. You know, you have, it's, it's a culture shock in a positive way knowing that you're in a very safe place. And that's when I knew it was home, you know, been here eight years now and it's just been a wonderful place to be.
[00:08:44] Christi: Congratulations.
[00:08:46] Scott: Thank you.
[00:08:47] Christi: Tell me the story of why you founded Visas.pt..
[00:08:52] Scott: Yeah, well I come from a tech background, you know, like I said, I was working in education and educational tools and games for many years, I just created this one little app just for the fun of it, where I would compare every other property in Portugal that's available online with every other property online. And be able to determine which properties were the best value and which were the best investments either for yourself or long term or short term rentals. And I just did this for fun because I like to build things and I gave it to some people to take a look at. within probably two hours without asking, they just gave me a lot of money to try to, get this going. did that and what happened was it became quite apparent that anybody who was coming to Portugal looking to buy a property was also looking to get a visa. And during that process we started helping them with visas because real estate lawyers that were working with us were also immigration lawyers. And so we started, you know, offering that service. And then that service became more and more popular as word got around that we provided this service for a reasonable price and worked with immigration lawyers in house. And it became so popular that we decided to close down the real estate side of things that focused specifically on this. And for me, it's almost like a blessing because of the fact that I am. A traveler. I have lived all around the world. And to be able to help other people, decide if they want to come to Portugal and help them come here and make their, experience of relocating to Portugal, a relatively painless one was almost like it was, it was really special to me.
[00:10:16] Scott: And, and every day I talk to 20, 30 people at least in video calls. And it's just nice to get to know them and be, and be able to know that you're. Contributing. You're helping them. You're assisting them. And I, I'm, I'm really happy about that whole thing. And so we, that's what we're doing today.
[00:10:30] Scott: And we've been doing that for a number of years now, and seems to be doing quite well.
[00:10:35] Christi: the Facebook groups just kind of organically grew out of that? Or did you say, oh, we should go on Facebook and start a group
[00:10:43] Scott: Yeah, it started off very organically, whereas we thought, you know, we, we want to be able to. Assist people coming here and, and, you know, advertise the properties that we have for sale and let 'em know that we can help 'em find that. but it just kind of took off and people really started to utilize the service as a information base, not only to get to know all the different information about coming to Portugal, but also get in and get to know the community. Of all the other people that have moved here and, you know, they can learn by following the same footsteps. And it just kept on growing and growing and, and the more I grew, the more, you know, attention I put towards it. And I really feel now that this amazing community that not only can I assist with, but I'm getting to know everybody on a personal level.
[00:11:27] Scott: we have get togethers once in a while and I got to know quite a few people yeah, it's just, or organically has grown to be much more than I expected it to be, and, but I'm really glad it did.
[00:11:38] Christi: That's wonderful. It seems like Portugal is becoming more and more popular, especially since it's been perceived as relatively affordable, an affordable place to live, especially for Americans, for people from elsewhere, Then it seems like it's becoming more expensive. So what, what is your perspective on this?
[00:12:00] Scott: So it all depends. I mean, I, what I like to tell people is it depends on the lifestyle you want, right? If you're going to live, for example, in the middle of New York, it's going to be expensive. If you want to live in a remote part of anywhere else, say it's going to be a lot less expensive. So it depends what kind of lifestyle you want and,
[00:12:16] Christi: I.
[00:12:16] Scott: you, you're certainly able to find really expensive places to rent and eat if you want to. But you can also find places in Portugal that are a little bit more remote maybe in the north that are more reasonably priced. it all depends. You know, if you want city life, do you want not want city life? And if you want city life, be prepared to pay for it. I mean, everything is more expensive there. And things in Portugal have gone up in price. There's no doubt about it. And in a comparison to some other parts and some other big cities, it might be considered more reasonable than those. But it's also, it's not as cheap as it used to be. And I think that is well, it's a factor when people are moving over here, what their expectations are and what rent they have.
[00:12:53] Scott: Maybe they might have to adjust their expectations to, you know, be able to afford a good life. but that said, rent is quite expensive, but everything else is is significantly cheaper. In my opinion, almost everything else.
[00:13:05] Scott: So for example, there's things here called Prato do Dia, Plate of the Day, and those are really good in the fact that you go into a restaurant, it's very Portuguese, authentic food, and it's just they're usually little restaurants that have these plates of the day. And so to give an example, our favorite place is 12 Euros, it has a you know, you get a glass of wine or a beer to start off with. You get an appetizer, which usually consists of these carrots and bread and, and things like this, that, carrots aren't usually my favorite thing, but the way this restaurant does it, is spectacular. And then it has the meal, you know, which is usually like a, you know, steak, rice, beans, vegetables, et cetera. Or you can choose fish and there's about, you know, 10 different selections for that. Then afterwards, you get a dessert. And, you know, one of five or six different dessert options, all for 12 euros, right?
[00:13:51] Christi: Wow.
[00:13:52] Scott: yeah, it's, wow. And, you know, or you can go to another restaurant and, and spend, you know, 75, a hundred euros per person if you want. You know, there's a little bit of something for everybody. And I think the, the downside is tourists come here and they don't necessarily realize that you go one street back from the, the waterline, then everything goes drastically down in price.
[00:14:11] Scott: And if you go to the, the more Portuguese authentic places. It may not have the views they do on the harbors or on the beaches, but the food is so much better and a lot more authentic at the same time. And then of course, you're contributing to the, local Portuguese families and the same breath, and you become a regular there, then, you know, they'll treat you well and offer their, their specialties for the day.
[00:14:30] Scott: And, and it becomes a really great experience. So if you understand where to go and where to live then you can do it relatively reasonably. If you first in here and you want you big city life big city restaurants, with high prices to match, you can, you can find, so
[00:14:49] Christi: What about Beach life?
[00:14:51] Scott: I mean, I'm a big beach life and, and I
[00:14:53] Christi: Hmm.
[00:14:53] Scott: again, the prices depend on where you want to live. So in the north, in a place called the Silver Coast, it's a little bit colder up there. It's still beautiful during the summer, but it rains a little bit more than down here in the Algarve where I'm at. And the property prices up there are, much less expensive places like Coimbra, Aveiro, Nazaré, which you may have heard of for the surf wave, et cetera.
[00:15:16] Christi: I'm a huge fan.
[00:15:19] Scott: Those guys are the bravest I've ever seen. So the way Portugal works is down here in the south in the Algarve is the best weather. there's no doubt about it. The claim to fame down here is just 300 days of sunshine a year, it's probably pretty true. You do get some rain, but as far few between in comparison to the north. the idea is in the middle of the Algarve, it's the best weather. They call it the Golden Triangle down here. And then the further west you go towards Sagres it gets wetter, and then the further north you go, it gets wetter as well. So the idea is that Lisbon's wetter down the Algarve, and as you go towards Porto and Bragga, it gets wetter as well.
[00:15:53] Scott: And, but also the property prices start decreasing. it depends. what you want. So the beach is up in Porto. It's also some of the most beautiful forests up there. So you like hiking and greenery and in this case, vineyards up there. That's the place to be. You know, this has more rain, so there's more vineyards up there and some of the best wine I've ever had. and you still go to the beach, but down here in the south you don't get the greenery. You get more beach life. They have a thing called Blue Flag Beaches. Have you heard of that? So Blue Flag, Beaches rated as one of the number one beaches in the world kind of thing when it comes to like, cleanliness and, the sand quality and just the experience in general. And in here in the Algarve, I think there's like 11 or 12 of them. so some of the best. Beaches in the world are here, and anybody who could just in beach Algarve and, and they'll just, they'll be blown away. It's just some of the most stunning scenery I've ever se seen in my life. then on top of that, there's some really special things that go on here.
[00:16:47] Scott: There's certain little islands around here like Armona and Culatra and, every single one of these islands has its own unique charm. But one thing that we like to do is go to a place called Culatra, and there's a certain spot on that island that most foreigners don't get to because you have to get there by a private boat, either yourself or a water taxi, and they'll drop you off and you have to know exactly where to go.
[00:17:07] Scott: And if you go there you can actually go snorkeling with the seahorses. And, that's to me is one of our amazing experiences, how these little tiny creatures can have such a big impact on people. And most people don't even realize these seahorses exist here. They always think it's in somewhere like exotic and, and much warmer than here, but they're all here and there's a, a big conservation project around them.
[00:17:28] Scott: And you have to know where to look. You know, I remember swimming around for about 15, 20 minutes, not seeing one, then someone came along and said, there's one. And as soon as you see one, you see them all kind of come alive and the area comes alive and it's just such a beautiful thing. with the beaches and the wildlife and the sunshine, it's hard, you know, hard to beat.
[00:17:48] Christi: That sounds great, Do the Portuguese, are they getting tired of the influx?
[00:17:54] Scott: Yeah, I mean, just like anywhere else in the world, I'm sure where you are that people you know, are, are disgruntled with the amount of immigrants that come in. It's a really a worldwide thing. But what I like to tell people, especially if you want to live here I like to promote responsible immigration. Because there are types of people that come here and that, you know, I, being in immigration, I have a lot of people trying to contact me and say, I want to come there, whatever way possible. Can you get me a job? Can you get me a work permit? And then, and we don't do that. They're just trying to really cheat the system, trying to, any way to get here, it doesn't really matter. And then once they're in Europe, they call Portugal the gateway to Europe because it was easier for a while to be able to get. a visa here, and I think that's what really sparked the unrest from some of the locals. People could from like many of the larger countries that have massive populations come here on what's what's called a job seeker visa.
[00:18:39] Scott: So they could come here looking for a job without any kind of particular visa, and then when they get a job, they could apply for the work visa. The problem is a lot of people came here on the job seeker visa, didn't get a job and didn't leave. And so it became problematic for the population. So yeah, there, there is an issue with that, but if you focus on again, reliable immigration and what that means to me is people that are coming here and aren't taxing the system, for example, anybody who comes on a D seven Visa, which is a visa that you, you require for your retirement. They have to have healthcare that they're paying for private healthcare. So they're not taking advantage of the local healthcare. You can, you have access to that as well. Or like, for example, children. My child's in private school here. So you know, we're not taking advantage of the public healthcare system, so we, we.
[00:19:26] Scott: Pay for pretty much everything and it's much more reasonable. We'll get into that in a second about healthcare. But everything is cost-wise for, there is much more inexpensive than other countries like the US But overall, if you learn the language, at least part of the language, you, integrate with the local community, you know, you don't bring the decisiveness or divisiveness, I should say, of the US or any other country to the country. And you just integrate, you know, become a
[00:19:51] Christi: in.
[00:19:52] Scott: become, yeah, fit in, become a part of the community rather than, you know, sit beside it. I think that you'll have a much better experience and in doing so, much more adopted by the Portuguese community as well..
[00:20:04] Christi: Well, let's say that I wanted to, or someone one wanted to retire to. Or move to Portugal is that there's a difference between retiring there and say for a digital nomad to move there, or someone that wants to just live there. Right? So what are the first steps?
[00:20:29] Scott: just to address that point, I think there is a, difference between someone here who's coming here for three months just to experience the culture and someone who's moving here who wants to immerse themselves in the culture and become part of the culture itself. really there's a few steps when it comes to retirement, visa.
[00:20:45] Scott: The D seven, the requirements are you have to make, make at least nine 20 euros a month in passive income. And what passive income means is like, you know, retirement dividends or rental income, et cetera. So it's really quite a low amount. And that's one of the issues with the local politics is the fact that the population here, the minimum wage is nine 20 euros a month, which is not a living wage, right? but that also means that for the D seven visa, it is. To match that amount in passive income, and then for a spouse is 50% of that, and for any children after that, it's 30%. Now, don't get me wrong, if you someone makes the bare minimum of that, they're going to have a hard time finding rent and, and living well, you know, getting a car, et cetera, et cetera. It's, like I said, it's not a livable wage, but it does make the D seven Visa much more accessible. Other visas because the amount you have to make in passive income is quite low. after you maintain that, there's a few other requirements you have to get, like your tax ID here, get a bank account open in, in the bank account.
[00:21:44] Scott: You have to deposit money to show that you're again, are not going to be a drain on society. And that's, right now a little bit over 11,000 euros for the first person and half price for the second. So for a couple it's about say around 16,000. You can utilize the money right afterwards. But I think they just want to see that you have enough money in savings to make yourself a responsible adult and, and, and not require them to be able to you know, support you while you're here. other things like healthcare insurance, you need to be able to show that you have proper healthcare. And I was mentioning it before about the prices because it's pretty extraordinary. I actually don't need to have, have private healthcare anymore because I'm now a permanent resident here. I use a public one if
[00:22:23] Christi: I
[00:22:23] Scott: want to. But you know but Private one is just so good and so reasonable that we haven't given it up.
[00:22:29] Scott: For example, for a family of three, you know, my wife myself and my daughter we have, think if we pay about 130 Euros a month for the insurance
[00:22:39] Christi: Wow.
[00:22:39] Scott: us, which is reasonable itself. You know, but the thing about it comes with some extra perks that I think are long lost in our, our in our cultures. For example my daughter was sick and she. Didn't want get outta bed and we didn't want to take her outta bed and take her to a hospital, et cetera. So we have the right to have the doctors come to us, so the
[00:22:57] Christi: Oh.
[00:22:58] Scott: calls you know, she had her tonsils out here and so we had to go through that whole process and.
[00:23:05] Scott: You know, she went into the hospital, she was understandably quite nervous. she would scream if she had a shot, like a vaccine shot. So the idea of putting her under and having a surgery on her throat and everything that is, a step above that. And it was very daunting for her. And they had no less than six doctors and nurses came and talked to her before the surgery. Went around the table and just sat there for about 15, 20 minutes talking to her, know, asking her about a stuffed animal that she brought along the way, her feel comfortable. at the end of it, you know, she felt comfortable.
[00:23:34] Scott: Everyone else felt comfortable, and, and they did the surgery and it all went obviously without a hitch. But I thought to myself, you know, what are the countries? Would they do that when they have the whole staff come and spend so much time with this little girl? It's just to make her feel comfortable. Whereas other situations in other countries, it's always just so rushed. Everyone's trying to like push you through the system and, and so on and so forth to get as many clients as possible, as much profit as possible without caring about, you know, the individual and about their experience and their wellbeing emotionally, not just physically. think that's really where it shined here. Yeah, it was really special for us.
[00:24:08] Scott: So when you go back to the cost of living, you know that rent is more expensive here than in some places around the world. I still think you can find reasonable rates, but you know, overall I think it's, it's, it's, it's not cheap. but if you combine that with things like healthcare being so reasonably priced and foods being so reasonably priced, I, I think it's actually a pretty reasonable rate. And, and you can get along, have a really good life here for much less than in other countries. All things considered.
[00:24:32] Christi: Do you recommend buying?
[00:24:34] Scott: I mean, it depends.
[00:24:35] Scott: You know, foreigners can get mortgages here, for example, just as easily as locals can. The only difference is if you've got a mortgage, then a local person pays 10% deposit. Or once you get residence here, you can be considered a local, so you'll get 10% deposit, foreigners have to pay 30% deposit. But other than that everything else is, down payment, whatever you want to call it. Everything else is essentially the same. So it's very accessible for people to come over here, buy a place, to be able to come over here and live. And that is one of the requirements of the the D seven Visa, proof of accommodation.
[00:25:04] Scott: You need a place to stay when you get here, obviously, and they're going to look for that in order to approve you. However, what a lot of people do is they come over here if they've never been here before, they rent a place for a year, they decide if that's the place that they want to live or maybe not.
[00:25:17] Scott: And, and then travel around Portugal until they find. You know, the place that they want to call home and then they look to buy a place. So we help people, both those
[00:25:24] Scott: things.
[00:25:25] Christi: you recommend that?
[00:25:27] Scott: Yeah, I, I always tell people to start off with, instead of deciding where you want to live, determine what kind of lifestyle you want to have first. You know, do you want to have the city life? Do you want to have, go for hikes? Do you want the beach life? Do you want the sunshine? Do you want the, vineyards? what do you want? then after that, once you choose the lifestyle, then choose the place. All of Portugal is so different and so unique in every different area, whereas a lot of people they say, I want to move into this location and, and then have all this.
[00:25:52] Scott: Experience in, in this culture around me. And it's, it doesn't always exist everywhere. come here and explore it first, travel around a bit, see if, if any places you'd like more. And that's one of the things we help people do. We understand what they want out of life and we help recommend places to them. do some searches on Google Maps and look at images and see if that's for right first of all.
[00:26:11] Scott: And then we get 'em here and then recommend other places they might want to visit, and then at that point in time. If they want to buy a place, then they certainly can. Now we did things completely different ourselves. We actually came from Brazil here without ever having visited here before, just in the recommendation for a friend.
[00:26:26] Scott: We looked at a lot of images and did some research, and we bought a place right when we first arrived here, and it worked out for us, but we're a little bit used to the, the lifestyle traveling around and, making decisions abruptly. not everyone else has the same comfort level with that kind of thing.
[00:26:41] Christi: But what kind of visa did you get when you, you just moved there, right? You didn't have to only stay for three months and then
[00:26:49] Scott: Yeah, exactly.
[00:26:50] Christi: go somewhere else and come back.
[00:26:52] Scott: yeah, we actually expedited our, trip by about a year because I have, I'm lucky enough to have dual citizenship, British and Canadian. And so
[00:26:58] Scott: Here before Brexit happened. So we were able
[00:27:01] Christi: Ah.
[00:27:01] Scott: just go up and say, we're here now, you know, and figured out after that where not everyone else is as fortunate as we're today, you know, as we were then.
[00:27:09] Christi: Right. Well that's when, when you were first talking about places you'd gone, I thought, well, you have the, British Empire at your feet, as a Canadian citizen and you have both. If you don't have that luxury, if you're from somewhere else, do you have to, what do they call it, the Schengren shuffle.
[00:27:27] Christi: Do you have to come in, go out, come in, go out?
[00:27:30] Scott: there, there is if you
[00:27:31] Christi: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:32] Scott: Ability to get a resident visa. There is the option of coming for 90 days at a time. So you come for 90 days, leave for 90 days, you'll have to stay here 90 days out of every 180 days, so you can kind of split your time between here and somewhere else. But for the most people, if they want to live here, there's all sorts of different options and it's really just a matter of talking to us and we'll help you, guide you in the right direction, to finding the right visa for you.
[00:27:54] Christi: Like what
[00:27:55] Scott: Well, for example, I mean, one option is the Golden Visa. You might have heard of that.
[00:27:59] Christi: I did, and I wasn't sure if that was like the million dollar visa that Trump has been offering people to come to the US
[00:28:07] Scott: It's similar to that it's, the same similar idea, but it's different. Like, for example, about five years ago, it used to be the fact that you could invest 500,000 in a property here, and then you can get your Golden Visa from that. And nowadays it's changed to the point where you have to invest 500,000 in a fund. So basically you have 500,000, you know, give it to a fund. They give you a 10% return every year. And then after the term, you can then apply for citizenship. So it's a, it's a quick and easy pathway to that.
[00:28:33] Scott: That's now looking to be changed where they're talking about changing the pathway to citizenship from five years to 10 years. And what that
[00:28:39] Christi: No.
[00:28:40] Scott: that anybody who has started the process before the change is likely to be able to come out the five-year pathway. So in other words, getting citizenship or applying for citizenship after five years is possible because in Portugal, every law that they change and they change 'em all the time never retroactive.
[00:28:56] Scott: In other words, if you've already come here under the previous law, they think it's unconstitutional. And I agree that if, if they change the laws after you come here, based on you rearranging your entire life to come here to begin with, it's not fair. It's unconstitutional. So I always tell people if they want to. Come here and get a, a dual, citizenship with Portugal and therefore your foot in the door to the European Union. It's probably best to get started on that right away. At least start with your NIF number, your tax ID and maybe a bank account, et cetera, to show that you made a step forward to Portugal before you actually moved here.
[00:29:28] Scott: Just as if the law does change, and again, everyone thinks it will very soon, then you'll, you'll be able to say. Well, I started the process before that change and therefore since it's not retroactive, I should be able to be coming under the previous program. Now there's no guarantees of that. Of course, you know, that might be the first time it's retroactive, that of all the laws I've seen passed, but it's very unlikely.
[00:29:48] Scott: And my theory is if someone's interested in coming to Portugal, and they're going to come here anyways. Why not spend the 95 euros, get your NIF number. put your foot in the door it may help later on, on your process of coming to Portugal, and if not, so you're going to have to get the NIF number anyways, so nothing lost it.
[00:30:03] Scott: Maybe something gained.
[00:30:05] Christi: So basically you should get that tax ID and bank account number asap.
[00:30:09] Scott: exactly. The NIF never takes about like two business days in the bank account, about two weeks. So, like I said, if you're thinking about coming here anyways, it doesn't cost much and it just gives you the opportunity to potentially come onto the five-year program rather than the 10. If that's not important to you, don't worry about it, you know, but a lot of people these days you're interested in, in second passports back, you know, plan Bs, and that's a way to do that.
[00:30:30] Christi: and the bank account should have between 11 and 16,000 Euros in it, correct.
[00:30:38] Scott: Yeah. 11,000 for the first person and then half, half that again for the spouse, 30% of that again for any children. and yeah, it's, it's literally just to put in the accounts. And then say that, you know it is here, print off a report that is showing that's in the account and after that you can start using it right away.
[00:30:55] Scott: You don't have to hold it there. Some people are under the illusion that they have to keep it in the account for the duration of the stay here, and that's not the case. You just have to put it in the account, show proof that it's been there, and then use that for your application, for your visa, and then using it for whatever you, you can use it for your rent or for day-to-day expenses, whatever.
[00:31:11] Christi: Is Portugal a gay friendly place?
[00:31:14] Scott: It is. In fact, we created a, a website called RainbowConnection.pt, this is in conjunction with a lot of the gay clients that we've had in the past who were trying to help other gay people come here and, and be informed. So we created the website to be able to better inform them in the entirety. So it's a wealth of information there. Portugal is considered one of the most gay friendly countries in Europe. It has a lot going for a lot, a lot of gay rights. And a lot of services for different people. The thing that, it's like almost any other country though, like if you go into the more remote parts of Portugal with an elder population, usually the elderly are not as I can say across.
[00:31:49] Christi: Friendly.
[00:31:50] Scott: Accommodating. Yeah. And then the younger population. So in, obviously in bigger cities like Lisbon, with a younger population, more diverse population, you're going to have no issues whatsoever. There's a large gay community there now. But if you go to, you know, very more parts of, of Portugal, then, then I wouldn't say that they're outward aggressive or anything like that.
[00:32:09] Scott: Just not as inviting, I guess would be the word.
[00:32:12] Christi: Hmm.
[00:32:12] Scott: whereas the, the whole country is in general is, very accommodating.
[00:32:16] Christi: That's good to know. what about the taxes?
[00:32:20] Scott: Yeah, so one of the so we have different packages visa packages that we offer our clients, and the first one is to help people with just get their visa income here. And then we have the plus package, which includes multiple different things. But the one important thing is the tax consultation with an tax expert here that understands, the tax obligations in multiple countries. Portugal can be high. You know, and there is a double taxation treaty with most countries, Canada, UK and USA has no exception. But there's ways to you know, minimize your tax footprint. always tell people the tax consultation is probably the most important thing because the amount of money you're going to save in talking to this gentleman is probably exceed the, our fees in entirety.
[00:32:58] Christi: This is so helpful. Okay, let's go back. What if you don't want to retire there? What if you want to come and work?
[00:33:04] Scott: It all depends on you know, what kind of job you want. Right? And we don't get a lot of like farm workers coming here and we're really more. Lifestyle visas. For example, people that are like engineers or programmers or, they have their own business and they want to start that up, et cetera. it's a different kind of clientele than the general people that want to come here and work as a bartender, and in doing so, we, get an interesting clientele and, there's interesting options. There's a thing called here called the NHR 2.0 for example, or a IFICI And what it is is tax breaks for individuals living and working in Portugal. Now, it doesn't have so much of a benefit for Americans, because America does tax global income, but it does have some benefits in the fact that any kind of income that is derived outside of Portugal is taxed at only about 10%. I actually came about eight years ago and have this, and so any income derived outside of Portugal is at 0%. You know, there are some obviously exceptions to that. And one of which is if you get income from inside Portugal, you're only taxed at 20%. So it's, it's, there's some tax benefits in there and with the double taxation treaty and talking to the tax expert, he'll understand how to, structure that in a way that benefits you the most.
[00:34:12] Scott: But there's other things like, say for example, you want to start a business here. It's really easy to get a, a D two visa, it's called, where you show that your business idea is not only going to sustain yourself, but it's beneficial to Portugal. They'll happily invite you in. In fact, they're looking for people that are capable of creating jobs and businesses that benefit the country.
[00:34:32] Scott: And for the most part, they, they roll the red carpet for you and do everything they can to assist you. And relocating here and and doing what you want to do.
[00:34:41] Scott: Then there's highly qualified individuals. if you're an engineer or if you're, you know, anything to do with any skilled labor they will actually also grant you a different visa for that. And it's very easy to get in. for the highly qualified individuals and also students there's always spots available. And for me, that shows a eagerness and willingness to invite these people in because what they see is, in Portugal, there's a thing called the brain drain, since the wages here are so low, everyone goes to the UK, Canada, US et cetera Luxembourg to be able to make a living wage.
[00:35:13] Scott: And then that means all the. People with all these events skills leave. what they're trying to do is to create opportunities for people to come back. You know, for example, the NHR thing I mentioned before is available to anybody who's Portuguese coming back into the country or anybody with skills that aren't Portuguese to come to the country and share the knowledge and, and skills as well. there's all sorts of different benefits. Like I'm not particularly into cryptocurrency myself, but I know a lot of my friends are. And Portugal's consider somewhat of a tax haven. if you're a day trader, maybe not so much, but if you're looking to bike. Cryptocurrency and then hold it for a while and, and sell it when it gets higher, then there's no taxes on that, it's just it's lots of different benefits for lots of different people. But typically it's the highly qualified individuals coming here for jobs. The people that start a business and the retirees and the digital nomads that we deal with. There again, there are exceptions and we help people of all different kinds, but those are the majority of people that come here.
[00:36:04] Christi: Do the digital nomads get a separate or different visa?
[00:36:08] Scott: Yeah, so there's, it is interesting because the D seven visa has a requirement or a stay requirement of 183 days a year. In other words, that means you have to become a tax resident. Here, the digital nomad is a little bit more flexible in the fact that they assume you're digital nomad, so you want to bounce around the world and do what you do. So they have the, the stay requirement where it's 183 days over two years. The first two years.
[00:36:29] Scott: After 183 days, over three years after that, which means you don't have to become a tax resident. You can actually come here and you know, explore the country and, and pay taxes elsewhere. And so that's quite well quite a good plan for some people.
[00:36:42] Scott: For anyone who wants to live here. They have the right and the digital, digital nomad to stay here as long as they want as well. So it's, it's kind of the best of both worlds.
[00:36:49] Christi: And which visa is that?
[00:36:51] Scott: That's a D eight, the digital nomad.
[00:36:54] Christi: Ah, D eight. Got it. Your website is really helpful. I didn't click through everything, but it was like, I saw all the D two, D seven, D eight. It's like, okay, that's really helpful.
[00:37:07] Christi: somewhere I saw something about. Scams and mistakes people make as they're trying to figure out how to get to Portugal.
[00:37:18] Scott: Yeah.
[00:37:19] Christi: I bet you have stories
[00:37:20] Scott: No, there's no shortage of stories there. I'll start with two of them. And
[00:37:24] Christi: I.
[00:37:24] Scott: Know, you get, you'll get the idea. for example, when someone's buying a property here, I remember this really well because you know, we lost a lot of money on doing a good deed. But essentially somebody was.
[00:37:33] Scott: Looking to buy a property and they found this house that they really liked had some rebar, you know, the metal poles sticking out the top of the house. You know, the owner's ex explanation for that was, yeah, we've been building this, it's almost done. And now we just have to apply for habitation license. And then it's good to go. And of course the person got really excited about that because it's a brand new building in their theory and, and where they wanted, et cetera, et cetera. what they didn't say was that that house that had the rebar sticking out was for a reason because as long as the house is under construction, they don't pay full taxes on that. And it's been like that for the last 12 years. So, and the problem is, in the last 12 years, the construction requirements to get the habitation licenses changed. So if they were to buy that house and try to get the habitation license, that'd be refused. And then they'd never be able to get habitation license until they do a lot more renovations to bring that same house up to code. In current standards. we had to tell the person that, and of course we lost the the deal because of it. But of course I felt better and knowing that we didn't take advantage of this person on that way. But those kind of things exist everywhere. I consider the real estate industry here to be a little bit like the wild west. You know, there is a lot of scammers out there who, you know, they'll sell you a property that was built on rustic land and you weren't able to build on there anyways, you know, or there's issues like I was mentioning or say for example. They sell a place that is intended for Airbnb. You know, they want, someone wants to buy it as an investment, but in that area, you can't get the Airbnb license anymore.
[00:38:57] Scott: There's certain restrictions around that as well. So there's all kinds of different ways that people take advantage of you, and that's how we, we help our clients and in letting them, know the local laws and how they can impact their decision making when it comes to buying a property for themselves or as an investment. And then when it comes to renting, that gets even worse. I mean, again, there's some unscrupulous people and I don't know how they sleep at night. but for example, part of the requirements of almost every visa is to have proof of accommodation here and has to be a one year lease that is submitted to the government authorities to validate it so that it's applicable for your visa application. a lot of these scammers know this, right? So they you know, they do advertise on Facebook Marketplace and some of the job or, or some of the, classify sections, et cetera. what they do is they say, we have a you know, a three bedroom villa for a surprisingly low rate in this area.
[00:39:46] Scott: And you know, we require first month's rent, last month's rent, two months deposit. And so people will gladly sign that, send over the money, and they'll send them a, contract back not realizing that this wasn't actually ever a real place at all. And so when they come here, they've spent all this money, they have no place to stay.
[00:40:03] Scott: And sometimes they get rejected because it wasn't submitted to the government authorities like they wanted to, et And so now they're owe quite a bit of money. Four months rent, you know, as we already mentioned, it's not cheap here. And to be able to do that and then realize you've been scammed is quite disheartening for people. So that's one of the things that we help with our property finder service, we do due diligence on the, the renter on the landlord, and then we know we have a lawyer look over the contract. We make sure that the. The contract is submitted, to the proper government authorities, because again, the landlord doesn't want you to do that because as soon as they submitted to the government authorities means they have to pay taxes on them on that income. But if you don't get it submitted in the proper way, then the application that you receive or the rental contract you receive will be rejected by the visa approval or. The consulate and then you'll be back at square one as well, spending all this money and you know, not be able to come. So there's all sorts of different scams, not just that, but other ways around that, around housing particular that people have.
[00:40:58] Christi: Do you go look at the property too?
[00:41:00] Scott: Sometimes it depends where it is and where it's located. The way we usually operate is we have virtual viewings. for example, say someone's in the States and they want to buy a place in Coimbra. So either us or the other real estate agent goes there and does a virtual viewing. So. The people can take a look at the property and also the landlord can take a look at the people renting it and get to know them as well. And then after that, we do due diligence on the property itself. We ensure that the property is owned by the people from renting it. And we have a lawyer go through the contract to make sure there's no funny business in there So it's quite secure.
[00:41:32] Christi: That's good. What are some of the mistakes that you have seen people maybe, you know, get off on the wrong foot in trying to come to Portugal?
[00:41:42] Scott: Well, I mean, I think first of all, it's bureaucracy. You know, Europe in general is a highly bureaucratic, union. You know, it is things happen slower here. you can't expect that, that, you know, when you first come here that everything that you do will be as efficient as it is back home. And I always tell people like, you know, you're going to, you have one or two options. You can recognize that it's bureaucratic. Or you, you can get frustrated over it. If you get frustrated over it, you're going to have a bad time. you're going to get stressed out all the time and you're going to be unhappy and, you know, it's just going to be torturous for you. However, the other option is to kind of lean into it, you know, you know it's going to take a long time. You give yourself a little bit more leeway as to how much time you expect things to get done. you know, you gotta understand that you're coming here. Oftentimes for a more leisurely pace of life, and this is, you know, a leisurely process as well. So as long as you, you can understand that sometimes, simple things can take a lot longer when the government's involved I think that you'll have a better time. And people don't necessarily understand that before they come.
[00:42:46] Christi: Wow, that's really helpful. And any final advice for would be retirees or those who want to move to Portugal.
[00:42:54] Scott: Yeah, I mean, talk to us first of all and see, if you're, if it's suitable for you take a look at, you know, all the different images and, and like ours online. Then just sort of get a feel about whether or not it's right for you or not. I find people are. when they do so they understand like, wow, this is a pretty amazing place. It's safe and, and good schools, good hospitals, good roads, good people, you know, good food and everything. So I think that. I understand that once they, the more research they do, the more they understand the appeal. But it all comes down to like, taking that first step and, and look at some pictures, see the different areas that you like. And if, if someone's really serious, then like I said, get an NIF number first. If nothing else. It doesn't cost much, but it can potentially get your citizenship a lot earlier, again, if that's important to you. but otherwise just take a look and maybe come out for a visit, take a look around and, and you automatically. You, it's almost like a, a feeling, if you will, when you get here. It's a vibe where everyone's just kind of more relaxed and, and chilled out, and everyone doesn't hate each other because of their politics or their, who they are, et So it's it's almost addictive to understand that it's a different way of living.
[00:44:02] Scott: Much more peaceful, calm, more in tune with not only, you know, nature, but with the community. And I think people like it once they get a taste of it.
[00:44:10] Christi: thank you. And, if people want to contact you, what's the best way to do that?
[00:44:16] Scott: well, they can go to Visas.pt we have free consultations on there and it's all over the website. So you can just pick
[00:44:21] Christi: I.
[00:44:21] Scott: a free consultation, and then they'll talk to me and I'll be able to help them with that. And you know, there's a phone number at the top of the. The website as well, which comes to me and there's email address or a, a a form they can fill out which comes to me. And then once they talk to me, I'll forward them onto the lawyers that work for me to be able to help them with the rest of the way. And I always tell people as a two system in the fact that if. Anything to do with the legal advice, I can, I can help 'em with. But the process is done by the immigration lawyers here in Portugal. But oftentimes the immigration lawyers are from Portugal and they're born and raised here. So they have a different perspective than a foreigner come in here and all the other things such as, where the kids should go to school, where they should live, things like that. They talk to me about so between the lawyers and myself, they kind of get the best of both worlds and we're able to, 'em in a lot of different ways.
[00:45:06] Scott: But the first thing is just to reach out and say hi. You know, ask any questions they might have to, and I hopefully they'll be able to answer all the questions.
[00:45:13] Christi: Well, that sounds great. Thank you so much, Scott. It's been a
[00:45:18] Scott: It's been a real pleasure as well, Chris. Thanks for your time and thanks everyone for listening.