Paul Island and Benef Verell, from the podcast Rhythm & Roam, share their stories of “traveling while Black and biracial.” From the streets of Paris and Estonia to Dublin to Korea and Japan, Paul and Benef recall their encounters with stereotypes and the cultural eye-openers they’ve confronted while traveling and living abroad. All shared with humor and grace, it’s a laughter-filled conversation that holds a mirror to our own cultural perceptions.
Paul Island and Benef Verell, two co-hosts of the travel podcast Rhythm & Roam, share their stories about travel, relocation and how they came to start their own podcast with their friend Trecia Cooke.
How did Paul and Benef get the travel bug? Benef recounts her Midwest upbringing and how family trips, mostly within the region, laid the groundwork for her future wanderlust. It wasn't until she joined the military, in an unexpected journey to West Point, that her travel experiences truly expanded, igniting a lifelong passion for exploring new places. Similarly, Paul reflects on his childhood travels that were mostly confined to the New York tri-state area and Florida.
From there we explore the intricate ways in which family, culture and unexpected paths influence travel and career choices. Paul recalls how his older sister's dreams of London inspired further exploration and a career in the military, expanding his own travel horizons. We touch on the cultural roots that influence aspirations, such as Paul’s Jamaican and British connections, and Benef’s Afghan roots. The conversation offers insights into the interplay of family influences, cultural backgrounds, and how these elements shape unexpected life paths.
The conversation turns to the impact of cultural diversity and identity on travel experiences. Benef and Paul share their encounters with stereotypes, “traveling while Black and biracial,” and the cultural expectations they’ve confronted while traveling and living abroad.
Laced with humor and canny insights, their stories highlight the importance of understanding and adapting to cultural differences, the benefits of solo travel and the unique travel styles that lead to memorable journeys.
LINKS
Rhythm & Roam
Ireland episode with Paul and Benef
https://rhythmandroam.com/episode/the-ireland-trip-that-made-us-question-everything
Passport Knuckle Ride: Staying Sane While Traveling in a Crazy World (Pocket Travel Guide)
https://rhythmandroam.com/book
[00:00:34] Christi: Welcome to Moving Along. My guests today form the backbone of the travel podcast called Rhythm and Roam
There are trio of travelers, Trecia Cook, based in Houston, Paul Island, based in Paris, and Benef Verell based in Colorado Springs. Today I have the pleasure of talking with Paul and Benef welcome.
[00:01:00] Paul: Hey.
[00:01:01] Benef: Hi. Thanks for having us.
[00:01:04] Christi: It's nice to see you, Paul, that I can see you, but to hear you too. To
[00:01:08] Benef: no. Well, and it's good to be a guest, you know, because we, we just get to sit back and like
[00:01:14] Paul: Yeah,
[00:01:15] Benef: answer the question. We aren't like running the show
[00:01:18] Christi: exactly.
[00:01:21] Benef: Yeah.
[00:01:23] Christi: Benef I'm gonna start with a question for you. You were born in Chicago and grew up in Madison, Wisconsin and Grand Rapids, Michigan. What did travel and moving mean to you as a child?
[00:01:38] Paul: Hmm.
[00:01:39] Benef: So yeah, we, we'd always travel to see family. So we were pretty much doing the, like go to Illinois, go to Indiana, Madison, Michigan. Like we never really left that little Midwest bubble. So the times that I actually left that area were pretty exciting for me. Like I went with my dad 'cause he had a work trip.
We went to Arizona. I went with him once to Puerto Rico, but it was usually with him on like a work trip. We did go to Canada once. And I really enjoyed that. But yeah, I didn't get, I didn't get a whole lot of opportunities to travel until high school. We went on the high school French trip and that was the first time I wanna say that, like, aside from Canada, I had really left the country I don't think that I had been anywhere else until that trip. And so that was a really, a lot of fun, very eye-opening. so we were in Paris. We went to Nice and Switzerland. I think we drove through Switzerland. But it was just, you know, we were trying to speak French and it was like, at that point, I mean, I did not have enough vocabulary to like really form anything other than like, hello, how are you?
You know? So it was that, that we didn't use a whole lot of our actual French, but I really, it wasn't until I was in the Army that I really started traveling. Traveling. And the love for travel grew from that.
[00:03:09] Christi: So it was the military that piqued your travel
bug.
[00:03:13] Benef: was, yeah. 'cause I just didn't, I was like, I, I was one of those ones that if I hadn't joined the military, I don't know how I would've turned out. I think. 'cause I was like scared of my own shadow. Like I was super shy. Like, I just don't think I would've done anything. I just would've been like in this little insular bubble, even though I was planning to go to school in California or in Arizona.
But. I don't know. I don't know. My life would've been very, very different, but like I've run into people that have, they're like, yeah, you know, in the early nineties I lived in Taiwan and I traveled all throughout Asia, and I'm like, really? Like I would've been terrified to do that. There was no way in hell I would've like gone to China as an 18-year-old.
Like, no,
[00:03:58] Christi: Yeah, you didn't have that kind of risk taking in you yet.
[00:04:03] Benef: no, no. I certainly did not. No. And I don't think my mom would've been that excited about that either.
[00:04:09] Christi: Well, Paul, let me uh, we'll come back to the military connection 'cause that is your connection the two of you. But I wanna ask you the same question as, right, you grew up in Long Island
and what did travel and moving mean to you as a child?
[00:04:27] Paul: so great question in the beginning. So thank you for that. And I have to say, mine is slightly, almost like Benef's believe it or not. But the, the only thing I can say is that we didn't travel a lot when I was growing up because my, my parents, you know were divorced when I was about 12 years old.
But when we traveled, it was mainly driving. And the only places we used to travel, I remember because we had lots of family, was either Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, or Florida.
[00:05:03] Christi: The, the tri-state area and the snowbird destination.
[00:05:06] Paul: Exactly. And that was, and it was not by plane. I think I, I could
[00:05:13] Benef: You drove.
[00:05:13] Paul: Yeah, we drove most of the time. I can count on my one, you know, hand how many times we went on a plane when I was a kid, so it was more packed.
All of us in, it was nine of us, and I'm the baby out of nine. So mom was a nurse, you know, and parents were divorced. So as you could see, it was a lot of packing everybody in a car. But I didn't get the travel bug until I remember my oldest sister, she always used to talk about traveling, you know, and, and, and the places she always say she wants to go and actually live was London for some odd reason.
And I think it was because back in the eighties she was a big Culture Club fan. I don't know you remember Culture Club
[00:05:56] Christi: Oh yeah.
[00:05:57] Paul: and I just remember watching these videos with her, and London was. One of the things, 'cause he is from the U.K. and then I think I started to manipulate or get that kind of energy based on her.
And, and yeah. And then I, I, you know, went to college and one of the things that I said to myself, because my sister told me, she's like, go away for school so you feel like you're, you know, traveling somewhere or whatever. She did use those same words too as well, and I was like, okay. And yeah, and then I ended up going to college down in, you know, the furthest south you can go, even though nobody considered the south University of Miami.
So I went there and then yeah, I just started to do the local type of traveling. And what I mean by local, I'm talking about adventuring out to like the major cities in Florida. So that was the extent.
[00:06:56] Christi: Key West. Yeah.
[00:06:57] Benef: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:57] Paul: Key, oh, key West a lot. Because Key West was literally only like two and a half, three hours away from Miami.
So I did that, that journey a couple of times and stuff like that too as well. So that's,
[00:07:09] Benef: I think I'm gonna need a family tree. Paul, I think I'm gonna need you to, to, to do that because I don't, I, I don't have a good idea of like who these people are,
[00:07:18] Paul: yeah, no,
[00:07:20] Benef: and their children. I'm
[00:07:21] Paul: it's huge. Yeah, it's huge. And by, by way of, you know, my family is from, most of my family's is Jamaican descent, as well as you know, mixed in there with, with the Brit British as well, because, you know, at one point the Brits was part Jamaican or own Jamaica. I hate saying own, but
[00:07:42] Christi: They did.
[00:07:43] Paul: they they did
[00:07:44] Benef: well, colonized.
[00:07:46] Christi: colonize. That's a good word for it.
[00:07:49] Paul: And stuff. So, but yeah, and then as I grew up, I just started to say, Hmm, you know, and, and got more of the bug. And then I think when I got to graduate from college and joined the military, that's when it just erupted. And I'm so happy that it did, because like Benef, I think honest to God, I probably would have been in New York and probably wouldn't have left.
And if I left, I would've went to Florida and that was it.
[00:08:18] Christi: That was it.
[00:08:19] Paul: That would've, I know,
[00:08:21] Benef: sad
[00:08:21] Paul: because, you know, in New York City, but you know, New York City, if I wanted something that's outside of the country, I can get it. You know what I mean? Like if you name it, it's in New York City, so why bother? Most of my, most of my friends don't even have a driver's license,
[00:08:36] Christi: Yeah. They don't, you don't need it in New York. It's
[00:08:39] Paul: Right, right. So,
[00:08:41] Christi: Where I live most of my adult life, I did your sister move to London?
[00:08:46] Paul: No, but she ended up going Montreal and then she, she
[00:08:52] Benef: Oh, that's
[00:08:52] Christi: city.
[00:08:53] Paul: right. And, and then you know, but it was only for like a few months and then she came back kind of thing. But that was something that was interesting, weird that, you know, between that and then, you know, she was all into the fashion thing as well, along with my uncle.
And then I just, I think I, through them, I, I, I started to deal with that and wanted to do that some more too as well. So,
[00:09:18] Benef: You mean more fashion? Is
[00:09:19] Paul: yeah. Fashion, like dress up, play dress up and stuff like that because I didn't get to do it for 20 years.
[00:09:27] Benef: you had where the Army
[00:09:28] Christi: You, you were told what to wear,
[00:09:30] Benef: we even had like civilian wear guidelines, so even if you're not in
[00:09:35] Paul: Oh, yes.
[00:09:35] Benef: you have guidelines of what you can wear in your civilian attire. So yeah, they, they wouldn't appreciate anyone being fashion
[00:09:44] Paul: Bingo
[00:09:45] Christi: So, and you, you went to West Point Benef right?
Like, so that's kind of a, a, a different path into the military as the two of you, you know, making your journeys to come to meet each other. why West Point?
[00:10:07] Benef: So they sent a brochure to the house my senior year, the summer before. And my dad was like, that's a good school. You should go, or you should apply. And I'm like, eh, it's like too much work. I'm not gonna do it. But he made me apply and and so I, you know, I went, I did all the work, did the interview with the congressman or the senator or whatever, and I totally bombed that interview.
No, I was terrible. I bombed it. And they my parents had an influential friend who got me an interview with one of the congressmen, which I did much better at. But yeah. And once I had gotten in, I decided that I should go because my parents hadn't, didn't have any college funds, so it was gonna be a struggle.
Like I had some partial scholarships, but I didn't have anything full ride or anything. And it never occurred to me to look abroad that it might be cheaper to go abroad. That, I mean, I just didn't even think that realize that that could have been an option. So I ended up doing the military.
Yeah. And I didn't know anything about it. I had no clue what it entailed at
[00:11:10] Christi: into.
[00:11:13] Benef: No, not at all. I don't, I mean, I, obviously my dad did. My mom was very anti-military because of Afghanistan and just like the constant wars going on. So she didn't really know what US military was like back then either.
My cousin had joined the Navy in 92. That, that was just a bad time to be in the Navy. So she kind of everything that we heard on the news with like tail hook and all that, like, she was kind of going through all of that at that time. So yeah, it was
[00:11:44] Paul: Yeah. But Benef is watering down her, like, you know, as well as, as, as I do that West Point is not easy in all the academies to get into. So she makes it sound very flip, but it.
[00:11:57] Benef: no, I mean, I had, I did have good gr like I was good in school. I had great grades, I had, you know, my test scores were good. The, the, the thing I hadn't, I mean, I was active. I wouldn't say I was a full blown like athlete, but I played sports. But that was like the piece that the military piece, I didn't have any comprehension of.
So the first summer showing up, you know, already just away from home and then you have to do all this military stuff and I just didn't know how to do it. So, thankfully I had people in my squad that had prior service military or had gone to the prep school, so at least, 'cause I would've been like, I was lost completely.
[00:12:36] Christi: you have brothers and sisters?
[00:12:38] Benef: I don't
[00:12:40] Christi: So you were the, what is it called? Are you the,
[00:12:47] Benef: Yeah, you're like, here, I can donate some
[00:12:50] Paul: I can donate some.
[00:12:52] Christi: well, where, did you meet and when you met in the military or after you were retired
[00:12:57] Benef: In the, in the
[00:12:58] Paul: Yeah, it was, it was, it was actually, actually, it was on the verge of when we were getting ready to, it's funny because lemme go back. We actually were in the same location while we were in the military at West Point. And then we were,
[00:13:13] Benef: Wait, what year? What
[00:13:15] Paul: It was from, I was there from 2007 to like 2011 or
[00:13:22] Christi: oh, okay.
[00:13:22] Benef: So we were there for two years at the same time. Okay. Well, I didn't
[00:13:25] Paul: Yeah. But we were in the same location and then we, we were both stationed together in South Carolina and, and one of the worst, I say
[00:13:37] Benef: I was
not the worst assignment for
me. It wasn't, but it wa I actually enjoyed my time there, but I mean, well I enjoyed yeah. 'cause I met a lot of great people. I actually did like some of the areas at Sumter. There were some nice areas. You
lived
[00:13:55] Paul: Yeah. This is where Benef and I a hundred percent disagree. I always say I started my military career in one of the worst places ever. I started out in Oklahoma.
[00:14:05] Benef: I don't
[00:14:06] Paul: Yeah. And then yeah. Lawton Oklahoma be exact. And then I ended my retired out of the military in another worst place for me as a city boy, which was Sumter, South Carolina, like Benef said.
And I traveled. This is how, how, you know, I'm a city boy. I traveled one hour, one way every day because I lived in Columbia, South Carolina, and drove one way, one hour every day, just so I don't live in that small podunk town.
[00:14:40] Benef: Yeah. Well, I mean, and also I, I mean I had two
[00:14:43] Paul: Yeah, fair enough.
[00:14:44] Benef: we are, we just were different places and, and I was also a part of like the spouse community 'cause my husband was the
battalion commander for that unit. So I had a lot of friends and then I met people in the community and I was teaching yoga.
So I was a little more involved in the Sumter community than,
[00:15:01] Paul: But he, but the other funny part is that I also know Benef's husband too as well, because, like she said, she, he was the commander. But when I was deployed to Jordan I knew him from there because he will come in and, and visit and stuff like that. But at the same time, I didn't realize that I had known him before.
Knowing Benef because he also went to University of Miami where I went to college, but he was older than me. But I remember him. I was just a po, you know, freshman, but he was already about to graduate and you know, do whatever adults do and stuff like that. So, you know, I knew of him, but I didn't know him.
But I knew like we were in the same location, in other words. And then found out that, you know, I knew Benef too as well,
[00:15:52] Christi: That's really funny. It's like it was
[00:15:55] Paul: right.
[00:15:57] Christi: and Trecia wait, Paul, you know, Trecia from childhood.
[00:16:02] Paul: Yes. We were both in high school band together and which is so like, you know, Bermuda Triangle here. I knew Trecia back when I was in junior high high school and we both were in a band together. Trecia also did drama, like she was, you know, doing the acting and theater arts and stuff like this.
But we mainly knew of each other during our time in the, in the band. And we were a damn good band, by the way. Just wanted to throw that out there.
[00:16:33] Christi: What
instruments did you play? What did you
[00:16:36] Paul: Oh, you gonna laugh. I was a tuba player. I was soaking wet, 143 pounds tuba player. And I was a great tuba player. I was a section leader.
[00:16:46] Christi: Oh my. Okay. Okay. And instead of going to New Orleans, you,
[00:16:51] Paul: Yeah, I, I, I had scholarship offers. I had scholarship offers, believe it or not, to play tuba in marching band for a lot of colleges. One of those colleges was Ohio State.
I could have been, I could have been that tuba that dotted the I in Ohio State Games. And
[00:17:07] Benef: The
[00:17:07] Paul: Ohio State, excuse me, Ohio. And I also had a scholarship.
Yeah, I had a scholarship for University of Miami to play there, but I ran track instead and did ROTC So that's where the money came in for me to be able to afford that school.
[00:17:24] Christi: And you and Trecia kept in touch. Then you guys meet in South Carolina. And so why did you decide to do the three of you a podcast about cultural diversity through the lens of travel?
[00:17:40] Paul: Yeah. I'll let you start, Benef
[00:17:43] Benef: Well, so Paul and I reconnected really again. During the George Floyd time. And so I, I was living in Japan and
[00:17:53] Paul: I was in New York. I was in New York. New York
[00:17:55] Benef: were in New York. I thought you were in Luxembourg.
[00:17:57] Paul: I, I ended gonna Luxembourg. Yes, that is
[00:18:00] Benef: So we were sort of talking about being Black in America, being biracial in America, just all these things that were coming up for me.
And I was also going to school at that time, taking French classes. So like all these things were coming up just based on like things I was reading. 'cause the French colonized everywhere as well. And and so like that was in the back of our mind just about like better understanding culture anyway, our own culture, like our own history, Black history, which neither one of us had the opportunity to learn in school 'cause it just wasn't part of the curriculum.
And so when Paul said, let's do a, I wanna do a podcast because you had, you were, you know. Going to take a break from work. And I was like, well, we like travel, but I don't wanna do like another go to this hotel. This is the best place to eat, yada yada. Like that's, there's enough of those. And I just, that, that didn't interest me.
So we really tried to combine the things that we were already interested in which is you just better understanding people like living in Japan, living in Korea. Had I not lived there, I would've continued to think that all Asians are the same, which is just like a horribly ignorant thought. But that's what I knew.
'cause I hadn't traveled to Asia and we don't learn about Asian cultures in high school. Unless you study Asian cultures in college, it's not gonna be part of like the regular. Curriculum. So traveling is what really opened my eyes to the fact of how different these cultures are, the vast history that they have between them the different countries.
So I wanted to be able to share that with others and just have, hopefully inspire, get people curious about these interactions that we have. Like, 'cause sometimes, you know, I bring what I think about Japanese people to
[00:19:49] Paul: your experience. Your experience.
[00:19:51] Benef: it may be completely off. I don't know, you know, until I go there or if I do research inadvance.
And a lot of times in my travels, I, I just show up. Like I don't do any research in advance, which I should, but I don't.
[00:20:06] Paul: And I can, I, I can piggyback off of Benef now and just say it's funny because everything she said that is correct and, it was funny because when with the George Floyd, as she mentioned, it couldn't have come at a, obviously I was very saddened by the whole situation and I was at the time still living in New York and then, you know, working for corporate America.
'cause I just retired and everything like that. And then George Floyd and COVID happened and I, I honestly, to this day I say it, it, it was all faith. Faith because, you know, and faith, because when I got a call from my job, you know about, it was weird. My old boss was like, Hey, there was this assignment that just opened up, but it's, you know, somebody in Luxembourg City, Luxembourg one in.
A marketing and communications person and I was like saying, there's no way in hell they're gonna want somebody in America. So I applied anyway and lo and behold, I get an interview. It was an internal role. I got an interview and then it was gonna be that I would work remote, but then the boss was like, Hey look, majority of the team lives in Europe, in Luxembourg.
Would you mind? Like, she said it so like tender.
[00:21:23] Christi: mind
[00:21:24] Paul: would you mind moving to Luxembourg? And the way she said it, I was like, you making it sound like you asking me to go to like this weird, you know, boring place? And I'm like, not only yes, but heck yes. Because I was just so exhausted with all the things that was happening.
And then it was funny. Trecia was traveling to London and I ended up meeting Trecia just out of the weirdness that I happened to go to. 'cause I, for my job when I moved to Luxembourg, I had to go to Lux to London a lot. 'cause my main bosses lived there and Trecia was coming in and then we hooked up to, you know, catch up and stuff like that in person.
And it was funny because I was telling Trecia that myself and Benef was talking about doing a podcast guy No, I, I take it back. She brought up the fact that she was looking to do a podcast and her husband concurred. And I was like, stop lying. You ain't trying to do no darn podcast. And then then she's like, no, I swear.
And then she, her husband also agreed. And I was like, that's so funny because, you know, a friend of mine Benef we were talking exactly about podcasts and about traveling and yada yada as people of color and all this other stuff, and. I have a lot of experience and we all have a lot of experience in traveling.
And then I kind of like brushed it off slightly. Trecia's gonna hate me for saying that 'cause I wasn't sure if I believed her. Then I contacted Bonne, told Bonne about it, and then Trecia out of the whim sent me a text and said, Hey, what are we gonna do? The podcast? And I was like, are you joking? And here we're with the
[00:23:07] Benef: Could, could you believe, Paul, if the, if the Army was like, would you mind moving to
[00:23:12] Paul: Yeah. And I would be like, hell no.
[00:23:14] Benef: you mind moving to Sumter? Would you mind getting deployed to Iraq?
[00:23:19] Paul: God no. No. Right. And that was the funniest thing where they were like, do you mind if you, you know, and it was during COVID that I moved back
[00:23:28] Benef: Yeah.
[00:23:29] Paul: to Europe.
[00:23:32] Christi: So you decide you're going to do it. Okay. And the husbands are on board. You're on board. Everybody's on board. where did you start?
[00:23:42] Paul: I think I started it. I think I said, Hey, let's just jump on a call together. And I introduced obviously Benef and Trecia together and how we all met. I was, I kind of always say I'm the middle person that. You know, introduced and had everybody meet everyone.
And then we kind of talked about what we liked and what was important to us. And like BenefV mentioned, we didn't wanna be that podcast that, ugh. The one that Oh yeah. You know, just the, here are these two tips, or here's this. We thought that we, you know, provided more experience because of our military travel.
And every two years we were going somewhere
and live you were gonna say something?
[00:24:25] Benef: No, I mean, I just, I I think like logistically, we, we used our military planning training to like sort of start making a timeline of doing the research of the things that we needed to do to actually logistically push out a podcast and who was gonna take on what roles based on what we were comfortable doing with.
So because there is three of us it made it easier. 'cause I don't have to do video editing. Like that shit's not happening. I don't have to do marketing. You know, I do the things that I, that make me happy, that I'm actually good at. So we naturally fill those roles. Like things I don't wanna do that Paul and Trecia actually enjoy
So it works out.
[00:25:06] Paul: It actually, no, she's right. It actually literally worked out. 'cause I love doing video videography piece of it. You know, Trecia was more of the IT and you know, the YouTube and know how to do all that in or out kind of
[00:25:20] Christi: The tech stuff.
[00:25:21] Paul: the tech stuff. And Benef was more of, I always say she was the, literally the, she listened more in the military because she was more of the organizer and the planner as well as all that other good stuff.
So I was like, yeah.
[00:25:36] Benef: What other good stuff? Don't just gloss over
[00:25:39] Paul: I mean, she was a, she's a good writer. She's a good writer. She, she knows how to, she, she does know how to do all the planning things, and I throw that, and she's also the middle person that solves debates a lot. Is that fair?
[00:25:55] Christi: Oh, interesting. do you get into a lot of debates? I, I, the three of you have an amazing, like sim simpatico, I
[00:26:04] Benef: I think, yeah, we've had one like legit argument we did, and I,
[00:26:15] Paul: Yeah. But we knew each other since we were kids, so I kind of was like, okay, whatever. You know? But Benef didn't know that dynamic either. So. It was kind of like she came on and just text. Oh, we had first argument. I was like,
[00:26:32] Benef: Well, I, no, but like, but we've had to navigate that communication like, 'cause we are also friends and it's like we have to have the, all right, this is the, like I'm playing this role hat. Yeah. Because I, I really need this from you and we need like a legit, like, when is this gonna happen? When are you gonna finish it, type of thing.
And that it, it's a tough thing to navigate. 'cause I've never had to do that. Like, I've only ever worked with coworkers. So there was that line already. You knew.
[00:27:02] Christi: Although you do
have
[00:27:02] Benef: were working for me. Yeah, I do.
[00:27:06] Paul: And Trecia.
[00:27:07] Benef: Do have
[00:27:08] Paul: as well. But,
[00:27:09] Christi: Yeah.
[00:27:09] Benef: Yeah.
[00:27:10] Paul: is is that Trecia and Benef are the on, they are, they are both only child.
[00:27:17] Benef: Well, children are not my
[00:27:18] Paul: So
[00:27:19] Benef: Not my.
[00:27:20] Paul: one that know, I think I'm the only one that's probably, I, I would say out of all three of us, I'm probably the one that's more, I won't say aggressive, but I am more into my wanting the voice, like, listen to me, like don't brush me off or don't feel like you're brushing me off.
Off. And I think it comes from where, when I was growing up, being the last of nine kids
[00:27:45] Benef: Oh
[00:27:46] Paul: who's gonna listen to me, you know?
[00:27:49] Christi: nobody.
[00:27:50] Benef: yeah, they're always just like,
[00:27:52] Paul: exactly. And as you grow older, believe it or not, you know, I still feel like that with some of my
siblings.
[00:28:00] Benef: my mom felt the same way. The youngest you know, and she'd be like 55 years old still,
[00:28:05] Paul: to get people's approval and it's
[00:28:09] Benef: some point.
Yeah. To.
[00:28:10] Paul: It's tough
[00:28:11] Christi: I think you've just given me like this complete insight into my, this little thing going back and forth with my youngest brother. I'm the eldest of six
[00:28:21] Paul: So you understand where I'm coming from kind of thing?
[00:28:24] Christi: Well, no, I think what you're helping me do is understand where he's coming from because I, you see am always right. The older, Because you're the oldest, so
[00:28:32] Paul: they So you Birth order matters. Like it's a real thing.
it is true.
[00:28:37] Benef: behind it. absolutely true because I used to believe in everything my el, anyone that's older than me said, and whenever they tell me to do something, obviously my parents would be like, they're older than you. Listen to them. And I'm like,
Hmm.
[00:28:51] Paul: but I'm right.
But nobody wants to listen to
[00:28:53] Christi: No. No. And me, I can't stand being told what to do. Yeah. That's no you don't have enough experience, Paul, you could be. course. Still don't have enough experience at 80 years old or whatever. You dunno what you're talking about.
[00:29:10] Benef: Yeah, exactly.
[00:29:12] Paul: To 53 different countries, but I don't know
[00:29:14] Christi: oh, I was gonna ask, that was one of my que 53 for you. How many for you? Benef.
[00:29:19] Benef: Oh, I don't know. Yeah, no, I, it's not that many, it's not that many. No, actually I don't keep count. I, I know that I have not been to South America or Africa. So those are two continents that I need to get to, but I do not keep track of the countries.
[00:29:33] Paul: Well,
I
[00:29:33] Christi: been
to the other five
[00:29:34] Paul: lot.
[00:29:36] Benef: Well, I haven't been to Antarctica either,
[00:29:38] Paul: I mean, like, you can, you can probably, you can probably add in 'cause every three years we're moving somewhere, so you could probably,
[00:29:46] Benef: mean, I could certainly go through my life and write them down. Yes. But that's never interested me to do that.
[00:29:53] Paul: When I was deployed obviously, or whenever we were in the military, we had to, you know, move from every two to three years. We were always going to a different country or a state.
[00:30:02] Benef: you including Iceland? The one you, so is
[00:30:04] Paul: Well, Iceland becomes number 54. Thank you for
that.
[00:30:08] Benef: There you go. So now, there you
[00:30:09] Paul: becomes number 54 to because I just did that last month.
But I, everywhere I went when I was stationed somewhere in the military, I was always traveling somewhere. And I think thank God I did the route that I did because the military is kind of what really gave me the bug of traveling. And I just, you know, I always felt like I, I needed to go somewhere.
And then I started to develop. I've always had a, a inkling that I liked something to do with culture because I really enjoyed classes like. Anthropology, urban studies, even though that was nowhere close to my major. But I really love just immersing myself into different things that are different than me.
And to this day, I still do it. And, and, and I used to be nervous in doing it way back when, but now I just literally was like, I don't care. I'm gonna do whatever and see what happens and leave
[00:31:10] Benef: You mean in
[00:31:11] Paul: and travel. Yeah. It, I was always nervous and because, I mean, as a person of color, you know, traveling to places, like, for example, Estonia in early two thousands, I, I, I, I had people have heart attacks when I was there because everybody
[00:31:28] Benef: had, they just never seen a Black
[00:31:30] Paul: Well, the way they were looking at me, I was saying no back in two thousands. And I was like.
[00:31:36] Benef: Yeah.
[00:31:36] Paul: Taking photos in the town square. And I remember people literally was frozen. It just, to me, it looked like everybody was frozen. 'cause you just, I just felt like people were looking at me, you know, like how you, you can tell or sense
something and I,
it was just a weird
[00:31:55] Benef: because yeah, they, they've never, it was like if, if somebody like was green, we would be like, wow, I've never seen this before. You know? I think that's what it's like for
[00:32:03] Paul: And then you go to a restaurant and then people were just like literally staring at me and I was like, either they're staring at me because I'm, they think I'm someone famous, or they're staring at me because I don't look like them.
[00:32:16] Christi: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:17] Benef: they've never, yeah, so it's an anno.
[00:32:19] Paul: exactly. Yep. Yep. But I loved it. I, I mean, I, I didn't love it when, while I was doing it, but I loved being there because I got to see how they are. And it was in the. Dead of winter that I went, which was worst time. And you know, it was, it was, it was awesome to do it. But I probably should go back again since I haven't been back since early two thousands.
[00:32:45] Christi: Do you usually assume that it's curiosity or, you know, coming from America, where I think Benef said in your Ireland piece is like, you have to explain to people we're all from somewhere else, you know, unless you're native. And,
[00:33:02] Benef: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:03] Christi: But do you assume curiosity on the part of the people who stare?
Or do you assume something like a little bit more malignant?
[00:33:13] Paul: I think all of the above, to be honest with you, because remember, it's a far, far east. Country, you know, and like Benef
said, Eastern Europe. Yeah. Like Benef said, you know, it's, it's something where people have not seen, you know, someone who looked like me. I mean, I remember when I lived in Germany, I lived in Germany for seven years, and I remember when I was in a countryside in Germany and there was this little kid, I was at a picnic for someone, a German friend that I know, and the little kid kept on touching my skin and literally was laughing and kind of was like shy.
And I was like, what the hell's wrong with this kid? And my German friend was like in my ear, oh, it's because she's never seen someone that's Black. And I was like, but the way they said it, it was kind of like, ouch. Like,
[00:34:03] Benef: I mean, I do assume curiosity. 'cause we, like in Korea people would stare at my daughter and she's, and like anyone that was like blonde, they were like, what is that? And, but there is a little bit of fear with that curiosity because I don't know. Like what they're gonna do. Like we were walking through a market and they, this old ajumma this old lady just grabbed my daughter and I was like, wait a minute now.
I mean, because she wanted to like look at her and give her food and candy and, but I was like, you don't just be grabbing people's kids. So like there was, there's still that like, uncomfortableness of just 'cause I don't, like, apparently that was not something that was a aggressive in Korean culture, but to me I was like, I knew that, I knew she was curious, but come on now.
[00:34:50] Christi: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:34:52] Paul: Yes, yes.
[00:34:52] Benef: so there's still that little bit of, there is still fear. I mean that it's, I
[00:34:56] Paul: 100% agree. And
Yeah, and I, I, I think, I think every time I travel somewhere, obviously I don't think, and I don't know if, if it is something that we'll get more into, but there is always that. Sentiment that I feel like I always have to check myself. one of the things we try to do on our podcast is to encourage people, especially people of color and women to travel more and to don't be afraid to do solo travel, a lot of times because of this, and even because I live in Paris, France now, is that I always feel like as a person of color and a male, that I have to feel like I have to check myself before going outside. Like today, you know, I know you're audience won't see what I'm wearing, but I'm wearing a, a sweater with a hoodie.
I would never wear this outside. And I think it's because of what we're. Our American cultural, what's happening in our society kind of thing. And I just don't want that stigma, which is, which sucks. And
that's
[00:36:04] Christi: it stereotypes?
[00:36:06] Paul: A hundred percent stereotype. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I mean, I deal with it and Benef you can give your own case, but for me, I deal with it every day where I always have to check myself before going outside.
It doesn't matter what I do. People are gonna always have a stereotype when they see someone like me look, go out, go inside somewhere. I mean, I have countless and countless of stories that I can put into a book and people probably can relate to.
[00:36:35] Benef: Yeah, I mean, I don't have, I don't experience the, the same thing as Paul with, with skin color. But as a woman, I am always like thinking about my safety. And so not going to places by myself at late at night or wearing clothing that is gonna be considered too provocative. And that's also like an Afghan culture thing as well too, that I've had to, you know to, to deal with.
So it's like traveling alone. I did go once to Mexico by myself, but like at night I didn't leave the resort at night. Like, I was like, I am not going to no club by myself. That's crazy. Whereas Paul probably
[00:37:12] Paul: hell yes.
[00:37:13] Benef: be like, no,
[00:37:15] Christi: Yeah.
[00:37:15] Paul: it's a difference between the male and the female too as well, let's be honest. So and I have done that.
[00:37:21] Christi: And when you say Afghan culture, talk more about that.
[00:37:25] Benef: Well, so my mom is from Afghanistan. And so, yeah, like the growing up for her, the boys and girls were separated. Like you didn't date. That wasn't a thing. And marriages were arranged. And so they just didn't have that dynamic. In fact, they were trying, her older brother, she's the youngest of six, was trying to arrange a marriage for her.
And she's like, no, because her, both of her older sisters had arranged marriages and being the youngest like birth order again, she was the one that was the most rebellious. And she said, I will just run away and dishonor the family. I'm not doing this. And so thankfully her parents agreed.
She had a brother already in the United States, so she came to stay with him and go to school here, but still, you know, so that, so she had to navigate marrying an American and then having a, a child who is essentially culturally American growing up and we do date in America, like you date in high school, junior high, whatever.
And, and she didn't know how to handle that. So I was always taught to you know, be you know, you just don't be overtly sexual. Like, that's just not what the Afghans do. And so
[00:38:31] Paul: And cover up.
[00:38:32] Benef: that's, yeah, I mean, you cover up, I mean, and so like, just trying to, to, but Americans aren't like that. I'm not saying we're.
You know, all over overtly sexual, but there's just more, sexuality is just more open in the United States. It's more open in Europe than it is in these Middle Eastern and central Asian countries. So, yeah. And so I still and have that where like, I feel like, oh, well, I'm wearing something. I, I look, I might look a little too good, so I can't wear this outfit.
You know, I might look a little too attractive and I don't want that attention. It's bad.
[00:39:08] Christi: Right. Oh, interesting. And then, but Paul being in Paris, it seems like everybody in Paris checks themselves before they go out because they all look so damn good. And as an American, I always feel like I've just come off the farm or something.
[00:39:26] Paul: Oh, lemme tell you, Christi I can tell you right now that you best, there was so much.
You best gotta
look good.
[00:39:35] Benef: went. You went to go get like baguettes or something. You didn't dress up and they looked at you like you were a homeless person
[00:39:42] Paul: yes. They looked at me
[00:39:43] Benef: You were just like in sweats.
[00:39:45] Paul: literally it was around the corner. the boulangerie is around the corner from my house. I had a sweatpants on and just a sweater, like something like you, you just to go down the street to get a coffee.
And I just remember I kind of bumped into a guy that was, he had his. Polo shirt on with the little sweater that's tied around his neck and his dog. 'cause he was walking his dog, he looked very bourgeoisie and he was very like, you know, matter of fact, you know, kind of thing. And I kind of maybe startled him and he looked at me up and down and like, like I was like a nobody.
I was like, oh my God. The look he gave me was just like, what are you doing in this neighborhood? Oh, the nerve of you. So I'm sure he probably thought, I don't know what he thought, but he definitely didn't think I belonged there. And I was just like, I'm not gonna change for nobody right now. I just need a baguette, you know, so everywhere.
And it is true, this culture in, in not only Paris, but I think in France in general, they take pride in, you must look good. Before leaving the house, it doesn't matter what you're doing. And it took a little bit for me to get used to it, but then I was like, I kind of dig this, you know?
[00:41:03] Benef: because you are
[00:41:04] Paul: yeah, I was predisposed already and, and I love, I love playing around with mood and creativity and dressing up and playing dress up.
Especially now that I can do it because I couldn't do it for 20 years, you know, it's almost feeling like a rebellion. And it's great being from New York City and knowing fashion there and then coming here and it's artsy and everyone does their own personality. And that's what I love about Paris and France.
And it's, it's, it's fun to actually, well, it's weird because I know as a person of color, like I mentioned, I don't know why, but I feel a lot more comfortable living overseas than I would if I was back in my own country.
[00:41:51] Christi: Well, that's James Baldwin right there.
[00:41:54] Paul: yeah, James Baldwin
[00:41:55] Benef: Yeah, it's not new. It's not, it's not new
[00:41:58] Paul: But I didn't wanna believe that until I actually got here.
And it's weird because I didn't want to believe it. And now that I have no, you know, government working or anything like that, and I'm on my own and I'm doing it, I like it. I feel it a lot more. And I feel like people are, people notice, and there are, don't get me wrong, there are still hateful people around, but it's not like in my face.
It's not every day. It's not like people looking at me first and saying, oh geez, this color, and I don't want to, you know?
[00:42:30] Benef: You're also not an African immigrant, and I think that
[00:42:33] Paul: That is true. That
[00:42:35] Benef: as well, because the French are,
[00:42:38] Paul: Yeah,but I mean like even, even if I'm traveling to other places in Europe or whatever, I feel like I can go, you know, even when I went to Poland or somewhere else, you name it, I don't feel the same as if I was the, for example, and people don't hate me because I say Alabama, if I go to Alabama and I go to a certain place in Alabama,
[00:43:03] Christi: Yeah.
[00:43:04] Paul: I would've to worry about my safety.
You know what I mean? So, whereas I can go to some of the most luxurious whatever, I may, you know, people may look at me kind of different, but I know I'm not gonna get shot.
it's interesting, I had to just throw that out there.
[00:43:22] Christi: I'm glad you did. Uh, I've got a couple more questions talk about your style, your travel style. How do you decide where to go next?
How do you decide where to stay?
[00:43:31] Paul: Well, mine is simple. I'm a pon, I'm spontaneous. I don't plan, I don't do anything. All I do is I usually, most of the time, I will say 90% of the time, I won't know where I'm going until that week, unless it's somewhere really, really far. Then maybe there's a little bit of planning. But if it's somewhere within Europe, like for example, I literally plan for a trip to Scotland and it, I literally did it like in two weeks and I said, okay, I'm gonna get, just go here, but I have no idea what I'm gonna do.
In Scotland because I think the fun of traveling is like if you have to plan everything like a German, you know, to the T of whatever it is. No Germans do that. Germans plan everything.
[00:44:19] Benef: I know.
[00:44:20] Paul: Yeah. So everything, like if you put a timeframe of whatever you feel like, what happens if you know something is closed now you ha don't know what to do.
So I'd rather wait a couple days before I travel, which is what I do, honestly, and just say, Hmm, let me Google whatever, how do, what can you do in two days of travel X Country? And then I'll just pick whatever looks good to me and then I'll do it. Or I just literally walk outside and just keep walking until I come up on something.
That's my travel style.
[00:44:54] Benef: Uh, yeah, I mean, and so I guess I have different travels because if I'm traveling by myself, it, you know, it, it might tend to be a little more spontaneous, but I, I do like to, like, say I wanna do a retreat, you know, I'll, I'll usually plan something. There's a reason to that I'm there and there's gonna be people that I am with, or I will plan some activities in advance so that I know that I have the tickets or you know, whatever, like the entry, whatever I need to do, I know I'm gonna be able to actually do the
[00:45:23] Paul: Minus retreat. Say what It is normal. Normal travel.
[00:45:27] Benef: So it would be a tour of a museum. Like if I have to get timed entry tickets, I'm gonna do that in advance. I'm not gonna wait till like the day before because then they're gonna be all gone. Or if I want to do like we did the Sydney Harbor Bridge, like that needed to be planned in advance or if I want like a special restaurant.
But if I'm traveling with family, yes it's going to be more structured. And I will take that time to plan some activities, but also to plan days where there are no activities and we're just gonna wander about maybe shopping, maybe find a park, go to the beach. But with like younger kids, when they, when they were younger, we had to have something planned.
'cause you don't want bored ass children. Like that's the worst thing that can happen on a, on a travel, on a vacation.
Um, so there needs to be.
[00:46:19] Christi: Right.
It.
[00:46:22] Benef: But and now like a lot of times we like to go for sporting events, so we need the tickets in advance. Like we can't just show up and expect to get, I mean, I guess we could, but I don't wanna be like so far back that I can't see the field. You know, we like to have the more luxurious experiences when we travel.
So that means that we we're saving in advance for these tickets if they're gonna be a little more expensive.
[00:46:47] Christi: what sports do you like to watch?
[00:46:50] Benef: so we, we like a lot of football or soccer and Formula One, which is expensive to go and see. We will do some college football. But yeah, these are like the three bigger sporting events that aren't inexpensive.
To, to go and see. So they need, their planning needs to happen. Unless I wanna be like in gen pop or, or general
[00:47:13] Paul: But we can both, we can both agree out of all three of us on from Rhythm and Roam Trecia is the planner.
[00:47:23] Christi: Ah,
[00:47:24] Benef: Yeah. She definitely is
[00:47:26] Paul: too much planning. She'll probably hate me for saying that, but it's just Okay. No, sorry.
[00:47:33] Benef: but we haven't traveled all three
[00:47:34] Paul: No, no, no. The way she was explaining what she
does when
[00:47:38] Benef: it, yeah.
[00:47:39] Paul: she's like, no, I have to have a plan. Like when she went to Portugal, she had a plan. I like No.
[00:47:45] Benef: That makes her feel comfortable. I, I totally understand that. Yeah. Like, 'cause I, I've tried to do the spontaneous thing and we were, my daughter and I went to Montreal and I didn't plan, I only had, was like a hotel and I didn't plan anything. So then we just got up and started walking and it was like, we were walking for a while
[00:48:03] Paul: the best thing. You're supposed to walk and then go into things and,
[00:48:06] Benef: there was no restaurants, like, nothing like we, the area I chose to have the hotel in and then we were trying to walk, it was all just like commercial business.
Like there was nothing to see. So
[00:48:18] Paul: Uh, yeah.
[00:48:21] Benef: and, in fact like that summer, we, we, we were, we got on 17 different flights 'cause we did lots of travel to come back from Korea for my
son to do some college visits. And then we were visiting family and then I just was like, I wanna speak French and went to Montreal.
And so. Like I kind of broke her. She hasn't wanted to really travel since then.
How
[00:48:43] Christi: old is she?
[00:48:44] Benef: She's 17.
[00:48:45] Christi: send her off on her own.
[00:48:48] Benef: no, I know that was the summer of like 20, but now like she could stay, I can go without her. Yeah. Like she wants to go to school in Ireland though, so living abroad really has had an impact.
'cause she's like, I can't imagine being in one place for more than
three years. Like, what the hell? I'm not doing that. She's like, I'm not doing that.
[00:49:05] Christi: Interesting. So I heard the Irish piece. The two of you were there recording, you're talking to people on the street, and was that a spontaneous decision to just like start talking to people and see
[00:49:20] Paul: Yeah, I.
[00:49:20] Benef: He is very good at that. I would, if I was by myself, I wouldn't have talked to a
[00:49:25] Christi: No. That's New York.
That New Yorkers can talk to anybody.
[00:49:29] Paul: Exactly. You point exactly. You're right on point. Like, I have no fear in my game. Like I, I used to when I was a kid, slightly more introverted, but I am completely, I'll say I'm more on the scale of extrovert to the middle, but because I'm like, the worst you can do is say no. So yeah, it was all spontaneous.
When we, I told Benef at first, I was like, Hey, we should kind, we should just try to talk to people wherever we go, because it was my first time doing whiskey tasting. I've never done that before in my life. And, and I was just like, let's talk to some people. Whatever. So, yeah, and I just had fun with it and, and, and it worked out well.
And then we got together and we started to talk about our experiences and stuff like this, because I thought it was a great experience, you know, with Benef doing more of the countryside stuff. And then I, I, I love Ireland, I love Dublin. It's a beautiful country and city. So yeah, it was literally all spontaneous and it was just me being goofy.
'cause I am a goofy, I'm a goofball.
[00:50:35] Christi: It wa it, it was fun to listen to, I must say. And Benef, did you hold the, the microphone? Was that, it sounded like you were talking a little bit.
[00:50:45] Benef: yeah. I was holding the, the camera when he was interviewing the the woman we met on the whiskey
[00:50:50] Paul: and it was funny because I kept on saying, yeah, Benef, let's do this, let's do that. Or you saw me a lot of times when we were about. I'm like with the camera and I'm just doing some stuff, and I had a really Gidget camera where I'm spinning it around and Benef is like, what the hell is this? Like, what is,
[00:51:05] Benef: You almost spooked the horses
[00:51:07] Paul: yeah.
I spooked the horses and the cops were like, don't do that. No, no. I was like, there's no flash, but whatever.
[00:51:15] Benef: No flash. No
[00:51:16] Paul: look, that's exactly what I just said a few minutes ago. I just
said, look, the worst you can do is tell me don't do it, or go somewhere else. Like, okay, great. I'll just go somewhere else.
[00:51:28] Christi: People say they like to, you know, just get out of town style hop on a train, go somewhere, which, when you're in Paris, is very easy to do and you can find yourself in a different place altogether. I think I remember living in Santa Fe, it took a bit to get, even to New York.
You couldn't get to New York without going through Dallas or this, you know, Denver or someplace. And it takes a little more planning sometimes just to get on a plane. But the money
[00:51:58] Benef: The scale of our, our country. Yeah. Is it makes it harder to do like train travel. Yeah, for sure. And and even local travel. I mean, 'cause it's,
[00:52:07] Paul: you're in a tri-state, unless you're in a tri-state or California or something like this, but I mean, just for an example, like I literally, and this is no joke today, I just booked a train ticket for 19 euros to go to tour Tours, which is a city out, out like right outside of Paris. Only because I was like, ah, I don't feel like staying in the, staying over for the weekend.
So let me just, you know, book, book a train to go to Tours, and. I mean, it's easier for me. You're right, it is totally like, you can literally look at a train and just be like, okay, I wanna go here today. And I love it. I love the, the freedom to be able to just maneuver to a different country that's only an hour away, which is Belgium, or two hours another way, which is the UK or you know, whatever.
I'm, I'm like so centered that I can just go wherever or just visit other really beautiful cities in France. France is beautiful. It was never on my top of my list of places to live, but
thank you France for, you know, having me live here, because I definitely was
[00:53:18] Benef: Thank you JP
[00:53:19] Paul: Yes. And JP Morgan, because it was not
[00:53:22] Christi: Corporate sponsors.
[00:53:24] Paul: yeah, it was not on my list of places to live.
But to visit, yes, but not to
live. And I see the light and I'm like, wow, France is truly beautiful.
And I highly recommend people to go outside of Paris to really enjoy what France has to offer
[00:53:44] Christi: I think also, I'll just say, you know, on behalf of the American West. You can't necessarily get on a train, but boy, you can get in a car and you can be in some of the most
beautiful places on Earth. And the National
Parks, New Mexico alone, I'll just put a bid in for New Mexico. It
is
uh, I mean, it's like different kind of travel, but
[00:54:07] Benef: No, it's stuff I'd never seen. Yeah. Like driving from Denver to Las Vegas. I didn't realize Utah. I was like, wow. 'cause I thought I
was just like a wasteland, but I didn't know.
I mean, that was a misconception. It was just like bad lands or just
[00:54:23] Paul: That's the reason why we end up, we we end up writing that book about that.
[00:54:27] Benef: No. Right. The misconception. Yes.
[00:54:29] Christi: Yeah. So tell, yeah, your, your book is called, wait a second. I have the title of it. Here it is A Passport Knuckle Ride. How did you get this title?
[00:54:41] Benef: Yeah. Staying Sane While Traveling in a Crazy World. I, I mean the Passport Knuckle Ride thing came from just one of the phrases that we started using for
our, um, podcast. Yeah. And so that just because we, wanted to discuss the things that people don't normally talk about that happen when we travel.
Um, just those, those, like, so for example, I'll say going to Japan I was looking for a trash can and I couldn't find one anywhere. And I, you know, and so I just, I don't understand like this is such an inconvenience, why I should know flipping trash cans. 'cause they don't have any public trash cans yet.
There's no trash. And so it was bizarre. Like that doesn't make sense to me. If there was no trash cans in the United States, we would have crap everywhere. Like, like it's already there. People like don't use the trash cans. But, you know, so that, that was confusing to me and I didn't that I was like, this is crazy.
Or like, we went to Thailand and I was warned that I needed to negotiate the, the fee for any taxi before getting in. Otherwise then I'll take you around the world and back again. And so I did that and make sure that it was, you know, not in some weird parking lot. Like I didn't have to, they weren't gonna take me somewhere to get in the car.
But then the guy goes and stops for gas and is like, well I need gas. And I'm like, and I had to pay for that. You know, like,
what the
[00:56:01] Christi: Oh
[00:56:02] Benef: I wasn't expecting
[00:56:03] Christi: wow.
[00:56:04] Benef: Yeah. No, because we were gonna be at the gas station with my small
[00:56:09] Paul: Oh, I would've had a fit if I had to pay for a full tank of gas.
[00:56:12] Benef: I was mad. I was very, very mad. And I, I, and I was like, obviously I didn't like that came out of the fee, but there was no option.
Well, I wasn't gonna walk. We weren't even anywhere near where we needed to be. So these are types of the, the crazy things. Or just like not understanding why people do things they do. So, and, and, and how to navigate that like mentally, because like, we can prepare logistically for the most part. You know, we, we now have all these things online where we can book our flight, book our hotel, book, the tours.
You can do a lot of it yourself, but mentally, if you've never been somewhere, how are you going to like, try and prepare yourself for what could be a very, very, very different culture. And so that's where we came up with the structure in this book. And I, I guess I just sort of used, Yeah, well I reflected back on like, well, how did I do it? You know, like Like if I had to like lay out what I do and it's like recognize that I have misconceptions about what, how I think these people are gonna be based on probably inaccurate. American media or things that my friends have told me.
And then when I get there, like observe that there are differences. Like you can't deny that maybe the things they eat are different, the clothing is different. The landscape could be different. Like there are gonna be things that are different and except the fact that there could be clashes as well, because we we're coming from different backgrounds, different cultures, but in spite of all that, like try to maximize what, what, where we do have similarities as human beings.
Just the similarities of love for family, love for good food, like just wanting to be joyful. We're all spiritual in, in some way, even though the religion might be different. So trying to, to maximize those similarities. we discuss all that in the book. And, and yeah, we do have as a, as a bonus when people buy the book, there's like a download for a workbook that will really ask these questions and ask you to like, take time and write them out.
Which is how I was able to, to write that blog about Ireland and realize that I had all
[00:58:21] Paul: and still and the meditation. The meditation part is a really good bonus feature too as well.
[00:58:27] Benef: Oh yeah. There's some audio downloads as well for like, just, you know, help ease anxiety of travel. Yeah. So it's,
[00:58:36] Christi: especially traveling alone. And you encourage people to travel alone, right?
[00:58:41] Paul: I highly recommend it. Yeah, I highly recommend it because it, I think our soul or our body just need time away from just other people. Like I don't wanna do, sometimes I do want to travel with friends or family or whatever, and sometimes I just want to do what Paul wants to do. And the only way you can do that is to do it, you know, with no barriers where other people is involved in making a decision of where, where we should go for the day or whatever.
And once you do it, you're gonna be hooked in wanting to do it every so often and stuff like that. So I highly recommend it, do it. It's also give you a good sense of, responsibility and to be able to trust yourself and your judgment to do things too as well. So highly recommend people regardless if you're married or single.
It doesn't matter 'cause people always stereotype that.
[00:59:34] Christi: Yeah. And you're forced to speak other languages, whether it's just cultural languages or the actual language.
[00:59:40] Benef: I just like figure out how to communicate. Yeah. I mean that's, yeah, without knowing the language,
[00:59:47] Christi: so I have one last question for you, and that is, how has travel changed your perception of home and what is home?
[01:00:01] Benef: Well with the military, I mean, 'cause we were moving every two to three years. Home was just where we were. Like that's where we lived. And we would use our personal belongings to make it feel like home. But, and the fact that we were together to make it feel like home. But like my concept of home really is just where I'm at and the community that I am engaging in.
So I sort of, it changes based on where I am. So like home right now is Colorado Springs and I'm engaging in this community, but before that it was Korea and I did what I could to engage in that community. So I think it is really about community for me, not just like the physical
location of
[01:00:42] Paul: I will agree with you. And I think, I think the military got us to be able to think that way because home is not me thinking, oh, I need a slice in New York City somewhere and just hanging out on the, you know, in New York City streets and stuff like that. Like I'm so far away from that now where home is literally, yeah, it's literally what Benef said.
It's no longer, you know, even interesting, I don't have many things here that's New York anymore. I just have the old Twin Tower Yankees and that's it, and the Giants. Those are the only three things I have left of home in my whole apartment. Like, it's weird. God, thank you for that question because I didn't even think about it until now. Like home is literally what I, what I consider home. Like what Benef just said, it's, it's no longer,
oh, New York. New York has exactly, and New York has no role play anymore.
[01:01:44] Christi: Hmm.
[01:01:44] Paul: Now, if somebody pissed me off on the street, you're gonna a New York warm.
[01:01:49] Benef: Oh
[01:01:49] Paul: Okay. So
[01:01:50] Benef: Well,
[01:01:50] Christi: It comes right back. Right.
[01:01:52] Paul: It
comes right back, like, look, I'm New York.
[01:01:55] Benef: we certainly heard you coffee. Going to
[01:01:58] Paul: Yes. Oh yes.
[01:02:02] Benef: Heard
[01:02:02] Paul: are certain words that would still consider being there.