Dive into the world of travel with Alex Howard, editorial director of Lonely Planet, the world's #1 bestselling guidebook. Discover offbeat destinations, tips for travel writing and the magic of getting lost.
Alex Howard, editorial director of Lonely Planet, discusses his journey from Central Florida to leading the world's top travel guidebook publisher. Discover Alex's recommendations for hidden gems like Isle Royale National Park in Michigan, Haida Gwaii in British Columbia, and the Puye Cliff Dwellings at Santa Clara Pueblo in New Mexico. Alex shares personal stories, from childhood trips to Disney World, the Redwoods and Hong Kong, to backpacking in China (where he met his wife) and India, to adventuring in an Alaskan glacier bay, dressed in an Arctic dry suit and paddling around icebergs.
Beginning as a backpacker reliant on Lonely Planet's guidebooks, "the blue spines," Alex transformed into a guidebook creator himself, driving Lonely Planet's vision for over a decade.
Passionate about authenticity in travel journalism, Alex offers editorial tips for aspiring Lonely Planet writers, talks about Lonely Planet's Offbeat Destinations guides and discusses sustainability in travel. Plus, Alex muses on Lonely Planet's distinction among travel guidebooks for its focus on locals and experiences. Here he also reveals what destination proposals he'd like to see cross his desk.
This episode is perfect for travel writers and avid adventurers alike, seeking to explore the world’s offbeat paths and create their own transformative journeys.
00:38 Alex Howard's Early Travel Memories
03:56 Backpacking and Teaching in China
07:02 Lonely Planet's Evolution and Challenges
11:03 Memorable Travel Experiences
20:12 Travel Writing Insights and Advice
27:44 Offbeat Destinations and Future Plans
Contact info
You can find Alex Howard, editorial director of Lonely Planet, at LinkedIn, Instagram or Twitter/X.
Check out Lonely Planet's website.
Follow Lonely Planet's Webby Award-winning Instagram.
[00:00:00] Christi: Welcome to Moving Along. Today my guest is Alex Howard. He is the editorial director of Lonely Planet, the travel guidebook publisher we all know and love. With 800 titles in print, Lonely Planet celebrated its 50th anniversary in 2022.
[00:00:19] Christi: Today, Alex is going to give us some suggestions for offbeat destinations and tell us what Lonely Planet's plans for the future are.. So, travel writers, listen up. Welcome Alex.
[00:00:35] Alex: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:36] Christi: Thank you for being here. Alex, you grew up in Central Florida, not that far from Disney World, and I wondered, what did travel and moving mean to you as a child?
[00:00:50] Alex: Yeah. So some of my earliest memories yeah. Growing up in central Florida, like you said, I was kind of in and out of the parks. Both of my, parents worked at Disney at one point or another. And so I would visit the parks a lot myself. So I was in this sort of interesting kind of border between being a local and being a visitor.
[00:01:11] Alex: So kind of travel and, and the idea of travel has always been central to how I've experienced the places that I live in, you know, in, in Florida in particular, it's, Got these kind of really artificial spaces like Disney, but also some really raw and wild natural areas like the crystal clear springs, or there was a woods right outside my neighborhood that we would often play in.
[00:01:33] Alex: So, you know, it's always been an interesting kind of local. Slash outsider perspective. But I mean, I think to, to answer that question more specifically, there was a trip that I took with my parents. When I was about eight, we went to California, it was a sort of typical summer trip. We We rented a car and flew into San Francisco, rented a car, and then went to Kings Canyon national park Sequoia and Kings Canyon.
[00:01:57] Alex: And I remember there are kind of two key memories that stand out for me. The first is driving along some Canyon road, peering out the window and just like deep, deep. Canyon below and thinking, I'm just going to kind of look at my book and not pay attention to what's going on outside. But the second is the smell of those Redwood forests.
[00:02:17] Alex: And that's really stuck with me as, because it was so wildly different from what I experienced back home in Florida and what I kind of knew to be just reality. And I think that that's been a really important memory and kind of idea about travel is that they can be. In small ways, really transformative.
[00:02:38] Alex: And, and that's driven a lot of my creative work at Lonely Planet. A lot of what Lonely Planet is doing as a company and as a publisher is really kind of focusing on these transformative aspects of travel.
[00:02:48] Christi: Did you make a point to go back and explore the redwoods as you got older when you were older?
[00:02:54] Alex: You know, I would love to go back to see those, forests again, because yeah, my childhood experiences is like looking up at these giant trees. And I, would love to reference that again, my wife and I we have two small kids and we did just make a trip to Southern California.
[00:03:09] Alex: And so it was, you know, kind of in a way going back to that same State of wonder because it was a new, place. We went to Joshua Tree National Park and you know, got to do some hiking with, our kids and experience the Joshua trees and, the wild rock formations that are out there.
[00:03:26] Alex: So in a sense I have been back to California, just not that specific place. So I would love to to return for sure.
[00:03:32] Christi: And where are you now? You're in New York
[00:03:34] Alex: I'm based in Nashville, Tennessee. I've been here for since 2011.
[00:03:38] Christi: Oh, that's great.
[00:03:39] Alex: It's another place where, you know a lot of travelers come. I consider myself a local having been here. So I've got kind of like kind of both, you kind of begin to sense a theme maybe.
[00:03:50] Christi: Right. We're going to talk more about those local writers. So when did
[00:03:54] Christi: you start backpacking?
[00:03:56] Alex: So travel was not always necessarily my kind of career focus in college. I was Really interested in English literature. I wanted to be a fiction writer. Maybe, you know, there's probably something to psychoanalyze there with growing up in central Florida and thinking about Disney and being a fiction writer.
[00:04:13] Alex: When I graduated, I it was the great recession. So there weren't a lot of jobs available to somebody with a, creative writing degree. So I Signed up to teach English in China sent a bunch of cold emails to a couple of universities in, in China and found a great university in Nanjing that was willing to take me on as a, as a teacher of some of their university students.
[00:04:34] Alex: And so that's, I did that for two years you know, learned a ton about travel, learned a lot about myself, as you can imagine living abroad for that long. And then got, had a chance to backpack around both China and then use it as a jumping off point to other places in, in Asia and, and beyond.
[00:04:51] Christi: And I bet you carried the Lonely Planet guide with you.
[00:04:56] Alex: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that was really a moment and an experience where I really fell in love with the brand, you know, those blue spines, we call them, right? The, the, the thick kind of guidebooks that, that you, you associate with backpackers and backpacking trips. I My friends and I, one summer or winter break between semesters, we went to India and, and that was we, you know, it was, it signified the start of our trip was buying this, big limb, Lonely Planet, India guidebook and then kind of sitting down and circling areas that we wanted to go to dog earring pages kind of things that you want to refer back to.
[00:05:34] Alex: And it really, we began the start of that trip, but also kind of served as a security blanket when we ran into all kinds of challenges traveling. So it was really a yeah, really important aspect of, that trip. And, many others.
[00:05:46] Christi: let me just backtrack for a second. Why China?
[00:05:51] Alex: So China, Hong Kong specifically was the first international destination that I traveled to. And funny enough, there's a Disney connection. My mother was part of the, initial team that opened Hong Kong Disneyland. And so she was over there for, for several months and I got to visit.
[00:06:10] Alex: And that was you know, talk about a transformative experience. It was first international flight, long flight went on my own. Met my mom there. And then spent a couple of weeks just sort of doing my own thing, exploring. We also had a Hong Kong Lonely Planet guidebook there. And I fell in love with how drastically different everything was, you know, thinking back to that, memory of standing in front of the Redwoods, you know, the smells were different, the language was different, but It almost, you know, kind of makes you feel like a child again, right?
[00:06:44] Alex: everything's a mystery, everything's interesting and unique and new and I wanted to experience that again. I, I had that trip to Hong Kong drove me to study Chinese in, college. And so I had a background in the language that I could use as part of learning Chinese. Going to, to China mainland to, to teach English.
[00:07:02] Christi: I solicited questions for you from some of my friends, one of them, who's actually based in Northern California, asked about how, you think Lonely Planet can really compete with the free content on the internet and with the travel influencers.
[00:07:19] Christi: When
[00:07:24] Alex: and you know, we've, we, in the past couple of years, we've, really taken a hard look at, the Not just the format of the guidebook but also what's in it, how we approach the destinations that we cover in the past.
[00:07:38] Alex: And certainly when I was doing most of my travels in China and elsewhere you may recall the guidebooks being sort of like restaurant review after restaurant review. They would call them listings of different items. And, We began to realize that with the, you know, well, everybody's got a smartphone in their pockets as they travel these days, everybody has access to, a lot of the same content online. We realized that there, there really needs to be A new way to sort of provide recommendations for travelers that are grounded in something different than simple, like this is a museum, this is a viewpoint, or this is a hike. we settled on an idea of, focusing everything around experiences.
[00:08:18] Alex: And so what this means is, you know, instead of going to this museum or going to this museum, We encourage our writers to write about what is, you know, more experiential about a specific museum or maybe a thematic series of museums, you know instead of simply going to the Coliseum wandering around, how can you kind of pair the Coliseum with the Roman Forum or other kind of related nearby attractions to really kind of build a story that you can tell about to your friends back home.
[00:08:50] Alex: And so I think that's, Really how we're competing with, you know, the likes of influencers or a lot of this sort of content that you can find elsewhere online.
[00:09:00] Christi: I interviewed Carlton Klein, who's the founder of Lost Canyon Imports, I asked him specifically about guidebooks, because it seemed to me going to Colombia and carrying a heavy guidebook would not be real suitable. But his point is that there often there's no internet. You're out in these rural areas. there is no, computer in your pocket and that a guidebook becomes a necessity.
[00:09:32] Alex: That's still, still very true. I think probably if I, if I was a betting man, the likelihood of that continuing to be the case, like well on into the future is rather low, technology and, mobile phone services is going to expand. There will be greater reach for those with smartphones, but you know, the guidebook still plays that very important sort of tactile elements, right?
[00:09:54] Alex: it's much easier to flip through a guidebook, kind of scan for information, finding what you're looking for than it is to kind of mess around on, a smartphone in a lot of ways, especially when you're in destination, I think about going back to that Trip to India, my friends and I were in a town called Varanasi on the Ganges and we were trying to make it to the next town on the train line called Lucknow and we, our hostel was right next to somebody who was who would sell train tickets. And we went to this gentleman to buy some and he said, no, no, no, the trains are all sold out, but I can offer you a private uh, Driver to take you to Lucknow. And of course it was like really expensive. And so we went back to our, our trustee Lonely Planet guidebook and discovered that the the train line reserved specific tourist quotas that you know, kind of held a reserved number of, of tickets and all you had to do was go to the train station to book some.
[00:10:47] Alex: And so it was that kind of. sense of like safety sort of helping us navigate challenges that I think a guidebook can still provide that element of reference in a lot of ways.
[00:10:58] Christi: I agree. That's a great story. What's the craziest place you've ever been?
[00:11:03] Alex: Oh, good question. I, Had the opportunity to go to Alaska. I've been a couple to Alaska a couple of times through, through my work at Lonely Planet, but the one that I keep returning to was the first time I went and I went to Seward, Alaska which is down on the Southern coast near the, the Kenai peninsula.
[00:11:24] Alex: There's national park there. But there is a tour operator that would do a jet boat tour to one of the glaciers and they had some, paddle boards next to this sort of bay protected bay that in the sort of far end of the bay was this glacier and in, in the bay were Icebergs some as big as houses, some tiny as basketballs.
[00:11:47] Alex: And we put on these Arctic dry suits, got on these paddle boards and paddled around these icebergs, you know, very kind of conscious of, you don't want to get near the icebergs, but you know, you're still within the midst of these gigantic ice structures. And I remember, The sound that when they would melt, it sounded like kind of the crackle and pop of, you know, ice cubes in a glass kind of pop.
[00:12:11] Alex: And I just remember this, this kind of Rice Crispy sound coming out of them. That's still rings in my ears.
[00:12:17] Christi: Wow. And so you went there to see those glaciers, right? Is that why you went there?
[00:12:23] Alex: It was a trip that started in Anchorage, rented an RV and went down to Seward definitely to see the, those glaciers, but also there, there's a lot of kind of glaciers dotted around the valleys there. And just kind of just explore that, part of Alaska.
[00:12:36] Christi: Wow. So you went with friends, right? You like traveling with friends?
[00:12:41] Alex: I do. I do like traveling
[00:12:42] Alex: with friends? Yep.
[00:12:43] Christi: Huh. Do you still travel with friends? Or is it mostly
[00:12:45] Christi: colleagues? Or you're Married
[00:12:47] Christi: now? Do
[00:12:50] Alex: So a lot of my travels are, with the family which I love, it's a new way to explore familiar destinations. my son, William, he's four and we're going to go camping. He's only been camping once. But we're going to go camping here next weekend to a state park. Called Fall Creek Falls is not far away, but it'll be this giant waterfall that I, I hope he'll, get a kick out of, but yeah, it's, it's kind of the chance to explore familiar destinations with new eyes and, to really kind of show my kids, the same love of travel and experiencing the world.
[00:13:23] Christi: you think the love of travel is innate? Or is it learned?
[00:13:27] Alex: What an amazing question. I think there's a human. Curiosity in all of us that is innate and that travel is closely linked to. And so I, I, I do think that there is a desire to travel buried in all of us. I also think that there's there are aspects of it that are learned, you know, namely, Simple navigation or kind of a resilience to challenge that, travel confronts and also helps you kind of work through that Is, is really important.
[00:14:00] Alex: So it is really kind of a mix of, of both innate and learned elements. You know, thinking back to that, that moment in India and other kind of similar moments where I felt lost or, thinking about getting lost, my, I met my wife in China and we she's American. We met amongst a group of expats.
[00:14:21] Alex: One of our first sort of, we had, you know, already started up a relationship, but, but one of our first trips was just a kind of simple weekend trip to a nearby town in China. we got on a bus to to visit this Buddhist temple. And on the way back her Chinese was always better than mine.
[00:14:37] Alex: So I frequently kind of deferred to her in, in navigation and decision making moments. She said, let's get off. This is our stop. And we got off the bus and then we realized. We're in the middle of nowhere. You know, this was, yeah, this was not we had really no idea. This was before we, either of us had smartphones, so we were utterly lost.
[00:14:56] Alex: And I remember thinking. That it was funny not, you know, being upset or worried. We were going to, we kind of knew the direction we were going to go in. So we just started walking with our thumb out for any taxi drivers that may, maybe on the way. I knew it was that moment that I, kind of knew the strength of our relationship and knew that I was frankly falling in love with this woman.
[00:15:18] Alex: So it was a a kind of formative moment in our, our relationship. And now of course we're married. So it was a happy ending in the end.
[00:15:25] Christi: What a wonderful story. Have you been back to China
[00:15:28] Alex: I've been back to Hong Kong. I was actually just in Hong Kong late last year. I haven't been back to mainland China in a while. I'd love to go back I mean, to just sort of see how things have changed. What what's going on. What's stayed the same just haven't really had the opportunity, but it was interesting going back to Hong Kong because when I first went, it must have been 2006 and it, it, it's changed a lot, From the skyline has changed the nightlife has changed.
[00:15:55] Alex: It's now gained rightful recognition as a foodie city. So it was a really, a really cool experience to go back.
[00:16:01] Christi: Do you get to pick where you get to go now that you're the editorial
[00:16:04] Christi: director of Lonely Planet?
[00:16:06] Alex: I do have some choice. I'll be honest. most of my work lies in. helping other people do the research and kind of experience the world my, my trips are fewer and further between them than maybe I would like them to be, but certainly fewer than they used to be. I'm at the moment where I'm, you know, encouraging the team to travel as much as I can.
[00:16:28] Christi: You're going to tell me how, did you wind up at Lonely Planet?
[00:16:31] Alex: Yes. So like I said, I really fell in love with the brand while I was in Asia and my wife and well, my girlfriend at the time Decided it was time to come back to the United States. She had much better job prospects than I did. She was already working with an American company, so she got a job transfer to Nashville where we live now.
[00:16:51] Alex: So I thought I'd tag along and a couple of years later in 2014. 14, a Lonely Planet opened up an office in a town near Nashville called Franklin. And they've started posting jobs for commissioning editors. And I kind of applied with, with a prayer and a, and a cover letter That he said how much of a dream job it would be and how excited I was for the opportunity and got the job I started as a commissioning editor covering the Western United States and Canada which was very cool because I had never been to either of other than California long ago Western U S and Canada were, were kind of new to me.
[00:17:30] Alex: So I could really kind of, in that sense, approach it as a traveler myself. What are the things that I would need to know, knowing very, very little about these places. And that's where I really Realize the power of our writers and the local experts that we rely on to gather the information to go to the places, research, and then report back what they, what they experience and what their advice is.
[00:17:53] Christi: So then you worked your way up to what? Western U. S. to
[00:17:57] Christi: the U. S. to
[00:17:59] Christi: the world? Mm
[00:18:02] Alex: it, it bounced around a little bit. So from that job with Western United States. I was the managing editor of we had a magazine for a little while. And I was managing editor of the magazine focused on U.S. us Travel. And then after that, I was focused on digital did a bunch of project based jobs on the digital editorial side.
[00:18:22] Alex: And then, yeah, recently I've kind of come back over to, you know, Guidebooks and destination content as editorial director.
[00:18:29] Christi: Why did Lonely Planet close down the forum? It seemed like It
[00:18:33] Christi: was pretty popular.
[00:18:35] Alex: it was, it was a matter of cost and you know, it was about the time it was during the pandemic or really kind of at the start of it so as you can imagine, kind of a difficult time for, for travel and the forum while, I'm sure, sure a lot of people found use and, and utility in it.
[00:18:51] Alex: It was. Difficult to moderate and kind of, you know help out with those, those kinds of conversations that were taking place. So we made the decision to, to close that down.
[00:19:00] Christi: It seems like there's a lot of pretty active groups in social media too, that I'm sure people migrated to away from that. But I went back and it still exists. I mean, you can still, you know, read, the old posts and see it. And it's kind of like, wow, it's
[00:19:18] Christi: kind of impressive, actually.
[00:19:23] Alex: Folks migrating to social media, we have a really strong Facebook group that I think carries on sort of the mantle of that they were called the Thorn Tree Forums but also, you know, on our other social sites our Instagram account, which I'll shout out, just won a Webby
[00:19:39] Christi: Oh,
[00:19:39] Alex: best, social. Yeah. Thank you. I admit I have very little to do with it. So very, very pleased with the team that works on that. But yeah, so, you know, a lot of that conversation and sort of sharing of information has migrated to, to other Lonely Planet channels.
[00:19:55] Christi: Wow. Huh. Congratulations. Wow. That's like a big deal. You know, when the Webby started, they weren't that big of a deal. Now they're like, it's a big deal.
[00:20:05] Alex: Yeah.
[00:20:07] Christi: You get the reflected glory, even if it wasn't specifically your team. Let's see. let's talk about travel writing a little bit.
[00:20:15] Christi: I have a couple questions from my friends, and one who's based in London says, one who's As someone who dreams of becoming a travel writer or working for a publication like Lonely Planet, I'd love to know what advice you would offer.
[00:20:32] Alex: Oh, that's a very good question. My best advice. Well, the advice that that comes to mind is. Write as much and as often as you can that was one of the things that was really formative for me coming out of fiction writing and, and my background is that writing daily with intention you know, it's a skill, it's a muscle that you have to work out consistently to get better at that has You know, I, I'm still kind of reaping dividends from all the, all the work that I put in to, to fiction and short story writing.
[00:21:04] Alex: and I think that any writer in travel writing or any genre the, best advice I That I can imagine is to just do it every day, do it with intention, revise get feedback. if there's a local writing group that you can join up do that, but you know, writing is as much a personal thing as it is a social thing.
[00:21:25] Alex: So the more that you can put your writing in front of other people, the better.
[00:21:29] Christi: one of the sections of the guidebooks that I like best is I think it's called, I Live Here. There's sidebars. And I wondered how you tracked your writers down, How you find these people, the locals.
[00:21:45] Alex: Yeah, so it's a mix. we call them our destination editors. These are our staff commissioning editors. I started as a destination editor for Western United States and Canada. when they are assigned a guidebook, one of their first steps is, who am I going to find that, you It knows the place the best has the writing chops to that we need.
[00:22:05] Alex: And in many ways that begins with an existing pool of writers that we know well, and we've worked with in the past. But it also begins with, with folks that are new to us. And that can start with a tweet that goes out saying like, I'm looking for experts in such and such destination, or, it's the groundwork of finding newspapers, local magazines that, writers have, previously published in. But I think mostly what we're looking for is Somebody that knows the place well can speak to a level of authority on some specific topics. You mentioned the, I live here section. Those are, based on interviews from local experts that, are writers kind of hunt down. So they can be experts in things like wine or architecture.
[00:22:49] Alex: One of, one of my favorites was in the Cuba guidebook. It was a local cigar shop seller, and his favorite places to grab some rum, some local rum sort of like his rum bars in Havana. So it gives that kind of sense of expertise local perspective that we think.
[00:23:08] Alex: Really enlivens the pages in a lot of ways.
[00:23:11] Christi: Would you say that's part of the secret sauce to great travel writing?
[00:23:16] Alex: I think that it's, you know, certainly a part of the secret sauce. The narrative of the travel story should be within a kind of perspective, right? It should be a travel writer telling a story about a place or giving the best advice that they can and then adding on to that. Would be this sort of extra flavor of the destination.
[00:23:38] Alex: I think we're more and more interested in letting locals speak about their destinations themselves, because that is frankly, in some parts of the world, a part Or, you know, a perspective that travel writing hasn't seen a lot. Yeah, we have Lonely Planet, other travel published publications would frequently send people to destinations rather than finding people in the destination to speak to the perspective of that place.
[00:24:07] Alex: And so we think it's really important Just to kind of give the traveler that kind of perspective but also to sort of lift up the voices in those places.
[00:24:15] Christi: Are there cliches that you get sick of hearing in travel writing, or descriptions, I should say?
[00:24:22] Alex: certainly. Yeah. The common one that I, I see is a, destination has something for everyone, right. It's, it's, and it's your kind of typical writing cliches. It's, it doesn't have to be specific to travel, but you know, we're looking for specificity detail. A sense of insider knowledge that this person has actually been to this place and can speak to the sensations of being there in a way that, you wouldn't, if it's, travel copy that you may see online or, in a brochure But yeah, there's all sorts of travel cliches. I'm trying to think of another one. You know, you may think, you know, X destination for Y reason, but really it's something else, like, let's just kind of talk about that something else rather than assuming perspective that the traveler may not have.
[00:25:10] Christi: Do you keep a journal when you travel? Or did you?
[00:25:14] Alex: Yeah, I did. And I do I actually one of the. formative things about that Hong Kong trip was I kept it, I kept a diary, a travel journal. I even sketched in it which I don't really do regularly anymore, but yeah, it was just a very kind of, again, tactile thing where you're, you know, working in a book and even that, India trip, I think there's a, an element of reflection and memorization that can occur when you're writing things down.
[00:25:39] Alex: I have a, very vivid memory of a cafe in Kolkata where I went and drank, you know, way too much chai tea and just wrote about the previous day. And it's, it's such a vivid memory. And I think my, my memories of that trip are so vivid because I took the time to journal and, To recollect in a way that has sort of like branded it into my, mind in a lot of ways.
[00:26:02] Alex: And I still do, I, you know I've moved a lot of my journaling and writing into digital form, but I do keep daily notes about, things.
[00:26:09] Christi: you sent me a lot of stats about Lonely Planet, which is like, it's so astounding. Lonely Planet is the number one selling guidebook brand in English. Wow.
[00:26:19] Christi: And you're responsible for it.
[00:26:22] Alex: It's, it's, it's a, it.
[00:26:23] Alex: takes a village. I can't claim responsibility for all of it, but yes, we are, happily selling , a lot of guidebooks. Even now,
[00:26:30] Christi: I have a question. Four destinations have exceeded two million copies. That's Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, and India. That's what made me think of it.
[00:26:42] Christi: Why, do you think?
[00:26:44] Alex: I think that's a reflection of the company heritage. So our two founding members. Tony and Maureen Wheeler. prior to founding Lonely Planet, they set out in 1972 on an Overland trip from London to Sydney. And this was. It was like me first trip straight out of school and they, they completed that, that trip and then everybody of course was asking them how they did it and what their you know, what their experiences were, how they could recreate the trip.
[00:27:14] Alex: So they decided to write a guidebook. That first guidebook was called Across Asia on the Cheap. You know, after that they started a publishing company and, because of where it began there in Australia, naturally the focus of a lot of those first guidebooks were India Thailand and Australia and, New Zealand.
[00:27:31] Alex: I can't remember what edition the India guide is in but we're wrapping up the latest Version of it and are really excited about what our commissioning editor has managed to pull together. It's going to be an exciting edition.
[00:27:44] Christi: you've got a book coming up called Offbeat North America. Is this a new series? Offbeat?
[00:27:49] Christi: Offbeat Destinations?
[00:27:51] Alex: Yeah, we did our offbeat book that was a global perspective destinations all over the world that were you know a little bit off the off the beaten path and, and, and lesser visited places. And it, and it was really popular with our readers and we wanted to, hone it down for North America.
[00:28:08] Alex: And so this one covers a hundred destinations in countries, including the United States, Mexico, Canada, Dominican Republic. there's 25 sort of bonus destinations, the idea is, we think that offbeat travel and off the beaten path kind of experiences are, are part of who Lonely Planet is, right?
[00:28:27] Alex: Across Asia on the Cheap was successful because there was no other guidebook around at the time, printing and covering that, that region. And so Not only is it sort of core to who we are and the adventure kind of mindset, but there's an important element of sustainability to off season and offbeat travel.
[00:28:46] Alex: And that in a time when, you know, Venice is implementing new restrictions on, travelers and the Canary islands are doing the same. We encourage visitors to, you know, if they are going to those places, think about what their impact may be on those places, or if they have the opportunity to visit somewhere lesser known, then please, you know, go ahead and do that.
[00:29:06] Alex: And, and here's here's the perfect book for you.
[00:29:08] Christi: what do you think accounts for the rise and fall of popularity of certain places? You mentioned the Canary Islands. I think it's a great example.
[00:29:18] Alex: I think it is a mix of location, you know, it's often a quick flight to places like the Canary Canary islands or, or Venice from major population centers. It's also, you know, we're at a moment while we've been in a moment of the sort of democratization of travel for the last several decades.
[00:29:37] Alex: And, I think there is a lot to love about popular destinations. Barcelona also comes to mind, but we. At Lonely Planet and I think travelers more broadly are thinking carefully about what stress that kind of popularity can put on a place. You know, Venice in particular, right? the question about Venice sinking into the sea always comes to mind or the strain that, that vacation rentals might put on a local economy.
[00:30:05] Alex: So, as a result of that democratization of travel and sort of the availability of all the travel information about these popular places, you know, how can we Lonely Planet provide alternatives that sometimes, honestly, Can provide the same or even in many cases, better experiences than, than the more, more popular places.
[00:30:24] Christi: This is from another friend of mine who's based in Wisconsin. What impossible to reach destination, one that is little traveled, one for which you have no book, would you like to see hit your desk?
[00:30:39] Alex: Um, it's almost a joke internally, but I would love to see space travel or the moon, like kind of as a travel destination in my lifetime.
[00:30:49] Christi: Would you go?
[00:30:50] Alex: I, also a good question. I would have to very, I mean, you know, I would honestly be priced out likely.
[00:30:57] Alex: But if it was a reasonable price and there was also the democratization of space travel, then perhaps I would consider it if there was, if safety wasn't an issue and I could make sure that I, I was sure to return, right. I certainly like it here on earth, but yeah.
[00:31:12] Alex: Yeah, I feel like that's kind of the one place that Lonely Planet hasn't covered yet. we've covered everywhere else.
[00:31:18] Christi: Funny. My friend did also wonder if you wouldn't be interested in publishing a book on fictional
[00:31:25] Christi: lands.
[00:31:25] Alex: Definitely. Definitely. our, gift and illustrated books has, has a, has a very traveler centered point of view, but expanding into sort of lifestyle interests. You know, we've got a book on myths and story tales from around the world. and that is you know, something that we're really excited about because it's essentially you know, Covering ideas and stories that are, grounded in reality, of course, but may kind of blur the lines between fiction and nonfiction.
[00:31:52] Alex: So that I think is yeah, really, really exciting idea.
[00:31:56] Christi: She was kind of joking, but you're serious, aren't you?
[00:31:59] Alex: Yeah, for sure. I mean, cause, cause travel is such a, you know, it's bound in curiosity. Right. And, we think that a traveler perspective, you can apply A traveler's perspective, even to your out, you know, just outside your door. And that includes thinking about things about the world and learning and experiencing new things and new ways.
[00:32:19] Alex: And that can certainly include fiction and storytelling.
[00:32:23] Christi: Where are you going next besides the camping trip?
[00:32:25] Alex: Yeah trying to plan that one out. my wife and I have been thinking about the Caribbean. you know, we had our sights set on Puerto Rico for a little while. We also, there was a, pre pandemic. Trip planned to Costa Rica that never materialized. So I'd love to consider that.
[00:32:42] Alex: But right now I don't, this is sort of like the first time in a long time where I haven't had any any actual plans. I just got back from Dublin to visit. We've got an office there but got to see the city a little bit. So yeah, always kind of trying to think about the new adventure and the next the next trip.
[00:32:57] Christi: How many countries have you been to? Do you count? Do you know?
[00:32:59] Alex: Oh, you know, I don't and maybe I should, I've certainly I work with a lot of people who have traveled even more than I have and we're always kind of sharing stories and I think that's where I'm sort of more interested in the travel experience, right. is like sharing the stories That people have learned something that they've learned about themselves or about the, about the place versus the tallying of, destinations. But yeah, I should sit down with a map and then kind of like count off
[00:33:25] Alex: the
[00:33:25] Christi: up.
[00:33:27] Alex: Yeah,
[00:33:27] Christi: Really? So now the moment that I've been waiting for. Okay. What are your recommendations for underappreciated or unsung or offbeat destinations that we should all be considering?
[00:33:42] Alex: for sure. So one of the, places that I like that are featured in Offbeat North America. Your, your friend in Wisconsin may, be familiar with this, but Isle Royal National Park in Michigan it's one of the least visited national parks in the system. It only gets 25, 000 visitors every year.
[00:34:01] Alex: And so for reference, Acadia National Park gets that many in a single summer day. So it's like very kind of off the beaten path. There's no roads. Lots of hiking trails, chance to spot moose and, and wolves. It's also great for dark sky viewing cause it's right all the way up there in Northern Michigan. So there's not a lot of light pollution. And so it's great for, for dark sky viewing. So that's one down South, further Southwest, New Mexico has been on my list for a while. And so New Mexico, you know, Taos, Santa Fe, Albuquerque, they get a lot of coverage, but I mean, kind of the more off the beat path New Mexico, the Santa Clara Pueblos Puye cliff dwellings, really an amazing example of Puebloan architecture.
[00:34:48] Alex: These sort of cliff dwellings that are built right into the side it's lesser visited than the nearby Bandelier National National Park. But there are indigenous guides that can show you around really knowledgeable. I had the, the opportunity to experience the Puebloan cliff dwellings at Mesa Verde National Park in Colorado.
[00:35:06] Alex: Amazing place definitely kind of more on the beaten path, but just to kind of, a sense of, of real, real awe and wonder at the, the intricacies of these, these dwellings is really cool. Sort of an international destination, Prince Rupert, British Columbia is really, really neat. It's on the coast of British Columbia and the whole coast of British Columbia is amazing.
[00:35:28] Alex: I've been to Vancouver and Vancouver Island and a little bit farther up the coast to Squamish. Prince Rupert is you know, one of these more remote places. And it's great. Because it's right near another destination called Haida Gwaii, which is an island off the coast and both are, are great for First Nations culture really kind of strong indigenous culture there that can be seen in the museums, but also local guides.
[00:35:52] Alex: And really fantastic for wildlife viewing, grizzly bears, moose and that sort of thing. there's a really amazing trip that I've always wanted to take that I've, I've sent people on in my work. But it's the Alaska Marine Highway it's a public transit route that kind of Covers the entire Alaska coast, but there's a, an amazing route that goes from Bellingham, Washington, all the way up to Juneau and it stops in Prince Rupert along the way.
[00:36:18] Alex: And it's yeah, it's kind of a ferry that it's like a do it yourself, Alaskan cruise in a sense. So that's, that's really cool.
[00:36:25] Christi: That sounds like fun. Never. I always forget about places like Alaska. So Are you a fan of budget travel? does that still, resonate for you?
[00:36:34] Alex: know, I, I, I kind of grew up on budget travel, you know, those trips in Asia didn't have a lot of cash as, as a teacher. So always sleeping in hostels and, thinking about ways to, maximize my money and for me now that has become yeah, it's about kind of finding Value and the experiences, right?
[00:36:55] Alex: And that can begin in the destinations that you choose a lot of these places because they're kind of offbeat are budget options for that reason. And so you can, you really have kind of world class experiences in a lot of, in a lot of ways that with a price tag that aren't that much but in terms of, you know, You know what I do to kind of save money.
[00:37:18] Alex: My wife and I are big planners. we try to kind of sketch out the basics of the trip before we've, we've left, because again, it's like about maximizing the value that we have our time and the money that we spend. So we've even gone as far as like setting up a spreadsheet itinerary and, and kind of mapping out hour by hour.
[00:37:36] Alex: We don't do that so much anymore with kids cause it's a little bit more laid back, but we definitely are into. Planning it moment by moment.
[00:37:44] Christi: I was gonna ask you if there was an app, I guess it's called Excel, huh?
[00:37:49] Alex: Yeah, there's a whole bunch of, I've seen people do a simple Google doc and then that Google doc kind of turns into a thing that you can share around or even, you know, the guidebooks themselves are an artifact that you can use to plan, dogear pages, circle things. And then, then that becomes something that you can share as well.
[00:38:07] Christi: That's great, what if what if a writer wants to get in touch with you? Should they just Send you a note at Lonely Planet or should they ping you on Twitter X?
[00:38:17] Alex: Yeah, if, if writers want to get in touch, I'm, I've got accounts on Twitter, LinkedIn all the usual if anybody is interested in sort of travel guidance and,
[00:38:26] Alex: Interested in feedback, you know really kind of interested in, yeah. Hearing what your listeners think. And, and again, if there's any other opportunities that come up, you want to talk again, I'm, I'm
[00:38:37] Christi: thank you. Thank you so much.